Hitler's court had also ruled that Jews weren't persons, so does this mean that what the Nazis did was okay?
What's the actual difference? The reason that unborn developing fetuses aren't legally persons is because of what the Supreme Court has stated. So, if other legal systems view other humans as subhumans, how is that any different? Those born and established persons were actually not considered persons by the German courts, just like how fetuses are viewed today.
By referring to the unborn as "other humans," you are begging the question. You are stating as fact the very thing you must prove.
Hmm, to avoid word games, let's stop using these terms, such as "fetuses". Let's strictly refer to the unborn as just that-the unborn. Cady, we're just going in circles now. And I will stop that from happening by making my opinions much more direct. All of your evidence which supposedly proves that unborn developing fetuses are not persons, such as their legal status as stated by legal courts, could also be applied to born and established persons.
Namely, the "right-to-life" which opponents of abortion rights speak of. Are you ever planning to get around in explaining how a fetus requires rights?
"requires" ? No, the fetus does not "require" rights. Neither did the jews in nazi prison camps. The fetus is a human being, with innate rights. Sure, we could ignore these rights, think up ways to dehumanize the fetus, sacrifice the lives of some for the betterment of others, others who we view as more important.
Yet there are plenty of doctors who would perform an abortion at 23 weeks. You think just because it's not a "late-term" abortion, it's perfectly fine?? Some of these fetuses survive !!
My moral character!! .. how is that relevant, you have already decided on my moral character, and I have already answered you question "it would depend on the a number of things, ie denying the scientific evidence that shows that skin color does not render people unequal, about 200 years of history where slavery has been outlawed and a wholesale culture change .. tell me do you think that can happen?" If you feel that answer allows you to claim a "victory" then please be my guest and go beat your hollow drum .. as they say a hollow drum makes the loudest noise but carries the least significance.
So also a liar as well, or do you have evidence to support your fallacy . .where as I have ample evidence from your own posts that you are a euthanasia supporting racist. and what is a "fetophobe", not only are you content to be a liar and racist you also have to invent words .. and you call me a bigot lmfao
If personhood is subjective, then so too is murder by default. Thus all anti-murder laws become illogical. And there is now no difference between aborting a 2 week old clump of cells and a 22 year old clump of cells. It's just all a matter of the opinion of whoever holds the power at the moment. And that would be a personal attack. Try to keep the gloves up. You wouldn't want to get banned for not being able to defend your points without resorting to ad hominem. Aside from the fact that it obviously takes you out of the debate, it is also a tacit admission of defeat. Just something you might want to keep in mind.
I have explained this numerous times. The unborn rely on a physical connection to one particular person who is forced to provide sustenance to the unborn. The born rely on their own physical being although they are socially dependent, i.e. needed care is provided voluntarily.
I don't understand why you think using the accurate term "fetus" is a word game. It is what it is. Actually, most abortions involve embryos (within the first 8 weeks) rather than fetuses. You could stop it from happening by not recycling the same debunked arguments. Wrong, born and established persons don't require a physical connection to and INSIDE another person to live.
Explain how murder is subjective. Sorry but in this case it is well documented from the person themselves as to their racist views, and I have little time for those who use something to cover up their true intentions, which is exactly what this person does. I can't understand how anyone could agree with anything he says given his known and self-admitted racist views.
I still find it ironic that YOU accuse me of racism for not holding different fetuses as equals. I thought they weren't "people", according to you. Well, which is it?? All I was doing is pointing out that one of the main pro-choice arguments implied race-based discrimination, if we took the logic to its natural conclusion. Or maybe in your twisted liberal mind, everyone has to be "equal", even if that just means treating someone else worse. You care far less than I do about black fetuses. But I guess it's okay because you hate white fetuses too.
Anders, your racist statements are immoral. However, Fugazi, you shouldn't use Ander's statements as an excuse to justify or make your evil opinions seem better, either. Two wrongs does not make a right.
sorry you don't get to twist out of it, my comment is directed at your racist views to those already born, along with your euthanasia views for those already born. You are the one who advocates dropping condoms into black neighbourhoods only, you are the one who advocates only enforcing white women to carry pregnancies to term, and you are the one advocating killing newborn DS babies. That makes you a racist in my opinion.
And what exactly would those be? My proposed discrimination against white women? We can make the abortion of retarded babies illegal if you want. What? You don't want abortion on retarded babies to be illegal? Are you done with your blatantly hypocritical rantings, name calling, and baseless accusations yet?
Okay, so can you please stop using the status quo to justify how the laws should be? I honestly hate going in circles with those same arguments over and over again. Whenever you bring up abortion's legal status, it keeps trapping us in these same old circular arguments over and over again.
When did Anders Hoveland ever make that statement? You're no better than him, especially since you accused me of being a sexist, which isn't even true, and also since you view the unborn humans as subhumans. He's a racist, but you're no better, since you view the unborn humans as being just subhumans.
Oh you know the ones where you advocate providing contraception to only coloured people and not white ones I know its hard for you to stay on track, but where is my comment anything to do with abortion .. you advocate euthanasia of BORN DS people. Hypocritical, yeah ok Name calling, hmmm even though its the truth as proven by your own posts .. do you want me to get them and post them all here? Baseless accusations, Do I really need to remind you of the things you have posted? Be a man Anders, stand by your opinions instead of ducking away from you true self.
I don't want Black babies to die. Fugazi does. And he accuses me of racism. The dark hideous truth is that abortion is racism. It has a devastating effect on the Black community.
Use the search I am not your slave. you are a sexist you comments prove it, and you are the only one saying that the unborn are subhuman, I've never used the term unless you can prove differently. Reading my mind again are you, you get more like CM everyday .. ranting without anything to back it up, or as a saying here goes .. All mouth and no trousers.
Go home, Fugazi, you're drunk. Anders Hoveland was absolutely right, you make all of these baseless accusations at me.
