Why is socialism becoming increasingly popular in the United States?

According to all proponents of socialism the goal is a non-exploitative society with the rule being equality and democracy - "of the people, by the people, for the people". Authoritarianism is entirely contrary to that. So you're wrong. Of course.

 

That is precisely what I said. Most if not all proponents of socialism abhor authoritarianism. However, following Hayek's Law, the socialist leaders soon discover that socialism cannot succeed long term without an authoritarian government.

 

Exactly. Wading through Marx's nonsense was one of the worst parts of my university studies in philosophy. Only Kant and Hegel were worse. Marx was at least a journalist, and occasionally made an effort to be entertaining. Nietzsche, now; he's quite fun.

 

Socialism makes achievement of that goal impossible, as I already explained so very clearly and patiently: it implies that wealth will be distributed according to a political process rather than consensual production and exchange, and the political operators who are most able and motivated to manipulate that process to their own advantage take over.

 

No doubt he blames the "capitalist" employer/factory owner.

 

First time I attended a union meeting, I understood how socialism inevitably becomes dictatorship.

 

GDP per capital in India is about 1/10th of this country. Try again.



https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country

How many people have to starve to death before you acknowledge a problem? How do you explain the idiocy of trying to make steel in backyard operations? China moved on from Mao fifty years go.

It's always a slip twixt the cup and the lip for you guys. Something or someone got in the way. Stalin had his wreckers.

Your problem is you can't get to there from here because what you want flies in the face of human behavior. I tried to tell you economists are interested in everything you are and much more. Out of your corner comes nonsense about us being duped. We're trying to have a reasoned discussion of matters. Of course, there's only so much time most of us are prepared to spend trying to communicate with dedicated Marxists.

Understand that markets exist. You can put your finger on the scale by making things illegal or dirt cheap as the Soviets did with such basic products as bread. Make bread cheap and people waste it. You should visit the Museum of Communism if you're ever in Prague. Ask yourself why East Bloc consumer products were junk.

Everywhere in Soviet Russia political thumbs were on the scale. The Gosplan went from a few advisors to a huge bureaucracy running the economy as a giant input-output model. Who makes what and how many of it is decided by government. It didn't work well and would work even less well today.

 

Unions can exist if their influence is limited and directed. They can really distort labor markets if they get too much power. The mentality of union leaders I knew personally when I was teaching public school suggest they're an existential threat to liberal democracy.

 

Honestly, I don't know exactly who he blames.

 

What evidence is there to support the claim that socialism is increasing in popularity? Perhaps it is, but a claim alone is not evidence to me. From my perspective all it takes to be labeled a socialist is to disagree with a MAGA supporter. When I talk with actual socialist they tell me that Biden and the Democrats are conservative and they make some arguments in support of their claim.

 

No you can't, because you haven't the slightest understanding of economics.

Nope. In the USA, the price is set by a patent monopolist to maximize profit by reducing supply. In India, the price reflects the cost of production because there is competition between suppliers who are all free to produce more and charge less.

Producers in a competitive market have no power to dictate their profits. They can only get the price that reflects supply and demand, and it is up to them to reduce their production costs to less than that. Marx's notion of "the rate of profit" is pure economic ignorance. The most efficient producers will make higher profits, less efficient ones will make less profit, and the least efficient will lose money.

That would describe your "explanation" of pricing in a competitive market.

Mao was a political operator who thought he understood economics. He didn't.

But socialism tends to turn into totalitarian dictatorship because it implies a political process to distribute wealth.

 

Capitalism tamed by a democratic society is probably what works best.

 

Except for geoism (i.e., liberty and justice). Certainly capitalism without democratically accountable government is a recipe for fascism, as we've seen all over Latin America, Africa, most of Asia, and Europe from time to time.

 

THEN.
THAT.
IS.
NOT.
SOCIALISM!

 

WTF do you mean "try again"?? An average monthly income of $400 is also about 1/10th of what it is in the US.

Are you just trying to conflict at all cost?? You may as well have said "BUT FISH DON'T BREATHE AIR!!!" It would have been as relevant.

The rest is just more of the same refusal to hear.

 

You didn't deal with what I wrote.

 

You are just redefining socialism to match your argument.

 

You didn't comprehend what I wrote!

 

No! YOU are. Socialism has always been the liberation of the working class from capitalist exploitation, and every communist revolution has followed Marxist ideas, and Marx referred to socialism as "the dictatorship of the proletariat" (over the capitalist class).

Let's see you deal with this and prove any of it wrong.

 

But the drug price is 1/80. Do you think the ratio of incomes somehow means all the prices in India are 1/10 of the US price? Sorry, that is just pure economic ignorance.

Milk is only 50% more in the USA than in India. Domestic beer is actually LESS in the USA than in India, as is gasoline:
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livi...ult.jsp?country1=India&country2=United+States

So, if American brewers can put beer on the shelf at a lower price than Indian brewers, why does the American pharma company charge 80 times as much as the Indian one?

<crickets>

Right back atcha.

 

Post #3, for starters.

 

No, because that is at least as true of geoism and anarchism as of socialism. It also is not a positive description of what socialism is, or how it liberates the working class from capitalist exploitation. For the definition of socialism, try consulting a good dictionary.

 

Why is socialism becoming increasingly popular in the United States?

After 38 pages and 950 posts I guess I should submit my own take on why socialism has become more popular in the United States.
Here are six factors right off the top of my head, but there are others:

1) The deteriorating value for the Individualism that America was founded on and made America great. This is reflected in a diminishing value for individual freedom, independence and responsibility. To some degree, this can be attributed to the Left’s attacks on Individualism and its promotion of Collectivism, and the Right's failure to adequately defend Individualism and its attributes.

2) The establishment and never-ending expansion of the welfare state, along with the relaxation/lowering of requirements to obtain government (taxpayer) assistance

3) The encouragement and destigmatization of government (taxpayer) dependency by self-serving Democrats, Leftists and LW “activist” groups

4) Indoctrination/conditioning by our government/public officials, educational system, mainstream broadcast and social media, the entertainment industry and Leftist “intellectuals” who are promoted by all of the above

5) The growing sense of entitlement on the parts of many, which is a product of items 2, 3 and 4 above.

6) Lack of education in History and Economics

 

That's invariably what you get with real world socialism and communism. To control people, seize and redistribute private property and command the economy requires an authoritarian, coercive government.

 

I see. So, in what you are no doubt pleased to call your "mind," none of the factors is young working Americans realizing that despite their astronomical productivity, they will spend decades paying off student debt, and will never have enough money to buy a home, get married, or have a family, and face the terrifying prospect of being bankrupted and forced into homelessness by medical expenses in their lonely old age, as they have seen happening to people they know, while rich, greedy, privileged plutocrats pocket billions in return for no contribution to production? That's not a factor in the increased popularity of socialism?

Maybe you could get some education in history and economics yourself. Start with a few good movies: Barbarians at the Gates, Inside Job, and The Big Short.