Why revolvers?

Discussion in 'Firearms and Hunting' started by Xenamnes, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    You’d have a different opinion if you had been. Real isn’t Hollywood. Real isn’t about being frugal with ammo, it’s about staying alive, when the flood of adrenaline hits, something few Monday morning couch quarter backs have an appreciation for.

    My favorite pistol for point shooting is my 1851 cap and ball Colt Navy (Wild Bill liked it too). But, Even with a Richard’s conversion (allowing cartridges)...fun, interesting...not a gun I’d choose take to a gun fight. In the days they were used, it wasn’t uncommon for someone to carry more than one.

    Btw, back in the early 70’s, as I have reported before, I witnessed a Brit Para attacked by a fellow with steel rod...the para emptied his 9mm British High Power into the fellow point blank and the fellow reached and killed him before dying.
     
  2. BillRM

    BillRM Well-Known Member

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    Revolvers do not stove pipe a round at the worst possible time as in your life is depending on getting another bullet downrange.

    It annoying enough when such events happen at the range.
     
  3. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nor do semi-automatics when held properly and fed with the correct ammo.
     
  4. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    The concern about semi-autos failing is overblown with modern semi-autos. I've run pistols that will run with unfailing reliability. I do know about a bad guy who pulled a gun on a good guy - an auto - and it malfunctioned thanks to poor maintenance. The good guy had a revolver and won the day.

    In the end, it's more the man behind the gun than the gun itself.
     
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  5. BillRM

    BillRM Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I do not trust them in a life and death situation an at any normal self defense range and situation I am also damn sure that six rounds of 357 ammo is more then enough to settle the matter as most self defense shoots out happen at point blank ranges.

    Spraying and praying also is not a way to win a gun fight but is a great way to enlarge the body count in a school or concert shooting.
     
  6. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And what does spraying and praying have to do with the difference between a semi-auto and a revolver?
     
  7. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because you can't do cowboy reenacting with a semi-auto (altho' the broomhandled mauser was avaialbe so we could do reenacting the Mexican Revolution (I have proof they were available way out here in the sticks.. a spent cartridge!, as a matter of fact, much of cutting edge technology catches on in places like this because they're so darned useful ! For Example, Presidio County had phone service before NY City because in NY you are just around the corner from services.. where as in the sticks, it's handy to be able to call in to town to see if your order from Sears is in before making the 40 mile roundtrip by wagon, (hint.. they used another new invention for the phone line, the barbed wire fences that went up at the end of the open range era, hooked up the the wire fencing and cranked that old phone like a dynamo!)
     
  8. flewism

    flewism Well-Known Member

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    My first handgun was a revolver S&W 357 model 28. Untouchable reliability is why and a better looking weapon. In my experience women including mine tend to like revolvers, no racking the slide.
    My wife, daughter and sister all added S&W Air Weights .38's to their personal collections. It started with my sister who had surgery on her hand and could not rack a slide anymore, so she bought an Air Weight to replace her auto purse weapon. My wife and daughter liked the little revolver so much they each bought their own. My carry weapons are auto's, but the revolvers I own I'll keep until my days are over, them my son gets them.
     
  9. BillRM

    BillRM Well-Known Member

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    Semi-autos are design or at least lend themselves to be able to spray and pray and revolvers are not so design.
     
  10. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So my Officers Model .45 ACP, with a six plus one (seven) round capacity is better for a spray and pray than say a six round capacity Colt revolver?
     
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  11. BillRM

    BillRM Well-Known Member

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    LOL replacing a new clip into an auto is far faster then reloading a revolver even assuming you limit yourself to a six round clip for the auto an you have a speedloader for the revolver.

     
  12. Crownline

    Crownline Banned at Members Request

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    My wife can wield every firearm in the arsenal very well. She prefers a revolver ruger SP-101 in .357 magnum. She handles pistols with no problem. With a revolver, she doesn’t have to fumble with a safety, or wonder if there is a round in the chamber. Just pull and bang. She can even fire it from inside her carry purse. She could with a pistol too but it isn’t going to cycle.
     
  13. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Totally incorrect.

    And by the way a clip is not used in a .45 ACP handgun.

    You have pretty much lost all credibility at this point.
     
  14. BillRM

    BillRM Well-Known Member

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    LOL I am a proud owner of a colt combat commander 45 and of course my pride and joy my SW 357 revolver.

    Both been in my life since the late 1970s.

    Your opinion of my knowledge of either type of firearms is of zero concern to me.
     
  15. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    When you are training for potential combat scenarios, you learn and practice how to clear malfunctions rapidly.
    https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-shooting-drills/
    If you think revolvers don’t fail think again.

    https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/debunking-common-revolver-myths/
    https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/revolvers-dont-jam-firearms-myths/
    https://www.concealedcarry.com/firearms-ownership/myth-busted-revolvers-dont-fail/ ... read through comments

    I have done work on gun for several decades, and while I do more work on 1911’s (I have a reputation for reliability tuning semi autos, particularly 1911s) than any other, I have worked on a quite number of revolvers that have had part failures. Any handgun can fail, and I have found the majority of failures/problems related to owners... poor maintenance, failure to periodically inspect pieces for worn, damaged or stressed parts, methods of carry (I.e., carrying in pockets with loose debris that finds it’s way into the mechanism, poor (even wrong ammo choices), even guns neglected to the point of rusting, and more.
    Many issues (such as accuracy, reliability) related to handguns can be traced to simple things such as grip, limp wristing (many semi auto), training, careless abuse, and sometimes sheer ignorance and stupidity.

    While I am not an advocate for mandatory requirements, I strongly advise new shooters, even veterans, to train, practice, and be completely familiar with all aspects of their EDC choice. I have seen many people carry DA revolvers that can’t place hits a silhouette consistently at 7yrds and bring me their piece wanting me to fix the gun’s accuracy. Any gun can mechanically fail; the most common failure... the owner.
     
  16. BillRM

    BillRM Well-Known Member

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    Lord in forty five years of range shooting of a revolver that was not new when I purchase it from a co-worker my SW 357 had not fail one time repeat not one time.

    That is not true of my colt combat commander 45 even it is on the upper end of autos in my understanding being base on the 1911a 45 with only some of the materials it is build out of being lighter in order to get the weight down.

    Oh I also am able to get must tighter patterns on target from my 357 then my 45.
     
  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nothing is 100% reliable, but nearly every revolver is more reliable than any auto. There may be some statistical crossover between very low quality revolvers and glocks, but thats about it.

    Revolvers dont suffer reliability loss due to quality/weight/charge of ammunition, and all autos do.

    If a revolver doesnt fire, 99% of the time it can be fixed by simply pulling the trigger again to try on the next round. Not so with any auto.

    Additionally some revolvers utilize multiple types of ammo. Any .357mag revolver will also fire .38 special, and .45LC will typically fire .410 shot, as examples.

    Revolvers are also more commonly available in stainless steel, which is a big selling point for folks like me who aren't regular with their cleaning habits.

    The slide action of autos is difficult for some people to get used to. Revolvers fire more 'solidly' and make some folks more accurate shooters than they would be with an auto.
     
  18. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I had a friend bring a .380 with the slide frozen to the frame and the chamber partially open.

    He had gone to the range carried the gun out of his holster then in a bag loaded, on the line he set a target, fired once and the gun jammed.

    The RSO advised him to remove the mag and they determined the gun was unloaded, the RO told him to have one of the counter guys look at the gun, they determined the slide seemed to be welded to the frame and advised him to take it to a gunsmith, which he did.

    I couldn't move the slide at all, I removed the stocks and left it in a quart bucket of Boeshield T-9 overnight, the next day I could move the slide maybe a sixteenth of an inch, I vised up a Delrin quarter inch rod, slid it down the barrel, then with both hands on the grip I shoved the gun forward and the slide carried all the way back.

    Once I got the puppy mother apart I discovered the slide and frame where rusted and the rails where gunked up with a brown mixture of rust and some kind of fiber which turned out to be Denim.

    After talking to him I determined the root cause of the failure was a gross lack of maintenance, this guy had been carrying the gun IWB on almost a daily basis for eleven years and never once tore it down and cleaned it, even though he went to the range maybe a dozen times over those eleven years.

    And what locked the gun up was a mixture of Denim fibers relocated by sweat and combined with rust which mixed with the Denim expanded as it oxidized.

    The upside is, once cleaned up and re-lubed the gun functioned properly, the barrel other than some black spots was in good condition and the rails while just a tad sloppy where not unsafe.

    In closing I asked him if he changes the oil in his truck, of course was the answer, I then advised him to remember every time you do an oil change, go home and unload your gun, tear it down and give it a good cleaning and re-lube.
     
  19. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    That's your prerogative; I merely suggest your lack of trust is not based in 100% legitimate perceptions. I've seen autos run in conditions that would leave a revolver jammed and useless.

    Your certainty, again, is not 100% legitimate. I can cite at least one instance of a police officer emptying six rounds of 125-gr. Federal .357 Magnum rounds - then considered the king of "fight-stoppers" - into a single bad guy... and the bad guy not only survived but killed the officer with a .22 he had concealed on his person and had pulled out right before the officer opened fire.

    Every defensive situation is different. Circumstances vary wildly. Yes, a properly handled six shot revolver will more than adequately address the majority of defensive situations... and there are situations where a revolver-armed person has died holding a gun they shot empty without stopping the threat.

    Ah, yes, another capacity snob claiming "you shouldn't need more than six rounds!" and insinuating that wanting more capacity means you want to "spray and pray".

    Nope. Sorry. I agree that it is important to pursue precision and proper shot placement... but that is NOT the holy grail you seem to think it is.

    A few years ago a police officer engaged a bad guy in a gun battle. Throughout the fight the officer, a trained shooter, felt he had to be missing because the bad guy wasn't reacting to his gunfire. The officer kept trying to focus more and more on his front sight and precision shooting to no avail, even as he himself was shot multiple times. He reloaded and the assailant charged him, but the officer was able to get back into the fight and went back to hammering away at the bad guy, who finally tried to jump back in his car and drive away... only to collapse behind the wheel before traveling more than a few feet.

    The officer survived; his vest saved him from suffering any fatal wounds, but he was hit several times in his legs.

    At autopsy, it was discovered that he had actually shot the bad guy TWENTY-TWO TIMES, seventeen of those hits were well placed in the torso... and the bad guy had NO DRUGS in his system and he was below the legal limit on alcohol.

    The fact is that I do like revolvers, and I like the way they balance in my hands and how well I shoot them. I even carry them for personal defense; though I always carry more than one for the very reason that I think relying solely on 6 rounds and good marksmanship alone is a short-sighted approach.
     
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  20. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    Well, the fact that you have firearms you clearly know little about beyond hyperbole is of deep concern to me.

    Autos were not designed for "spray and pray" as you have claimed. The 1911 does not use "clips" for reloading; it is magazine fed. The .357 Magnum is not a "magic bullet" that is guaranteed to stop a bad guy... and .357 Mag is prone to severe overpenetration in defensive scenarios if the wrong projectile configuration is used.

    Your lack of knowledge on real-world firearms applications makes you a genuine danger to those around you.
     
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  21. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    There is a different mind set about guns when you’ve been through an actual fight and been around those who have real experiences to share.
     
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  22. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Revolvers are often more forgiving of user errors. That is one of their advantages. But, complacency and making blanket assumptions can make any weapon dangerous. Assume your revolver will go bang in every situation, during a fight when adrenaline can be a challenge to even the best, then have one lock up because derbis is wedged in the cylinder, and addrenaline will go from 100 to 1000, and if it does, can you think clearly to, rapidly assess, resolve the issue and get your pistol back in the fight?
    Any gun can fail (even Glocks...Lol). Some failures are the result of the operator, some are rapidly resolvable, some are catastrophic such as with revolvers...blackouts, spring failures (any handgun), out of timing, cracked frame or feeding cone, or running dry with loose rounds as spar ammo, shooting double loads or, as bad, primer only loads (bullet enters the barrel but no power to exits).
    With revolvers, some issues, like debris interfering with the cylinder, can be cleared by opening the cylinder, clearing the debris, and closing the cylinder... indexing the next live round if you have the presence of mind. Like semis, many issues can be avoided by proper ammo selection (reputable sources), fit for purpose ammo, daily weapons inspection, proper maintenance, periodic breakdown and parts inspections by competent smith, etc.
    The 1911 was designed and timed for a specific cartridge configuration and with older military versions with loose tolerances were extremely reliable if well maintained and the operator trained in it’s operation. That millions were issued by the US and other countries in nearly every conflict in the 20th century testifies to what the military thought of them. Part of what has changed in the last 70+ years is people trying to feed them different ammo (HPs, truncated cones, etc. with different powder loads) that cause feeding problems because of the feed ramp angle, throwing of the balance of the slide, recoil spring and mag spring. Then too, are manufacturers, reacting to market pressures turning out sub Compacts that also muck with the design (Kimber is one of those).
    In these days of compacts and modern SD ammo, one thing I notice is people practicing with FMJ ammo because of lower cost to modern SD ammo, then carrying with ammo they’ve never tested for reliability. I see that with revolvers as well, for instance with .357s, practicing with .38s (never with 357’s) but carrying hot 357 loads for SD...then only practicing SA, never mastering DA (I have seen lots LE do that).
    Then, with semi actions, I have had folks bring me, ‘a problem gun’ to find they had never tested the ammo they were trying to feed it, dropped mags on concrete, rarely cleaned or lubbed it, or on the range limp waisted the gun (extremely frequent).
    While a revolver, and I have several, can be forgiving to it’s operator, it still requires proper care and maintenance. A properly maintained, cared for, tuned (if needed), and fed semi Auto can be as reliable as a revolver and any potential FE/FF or 3pt jam can be instantly resolved if in training, failure drills are practiced.
    As with any tool choice, there are tradeoffs. Revolvers might seem to have an edge in reliability regardless of operator care and maintenance practices...and, they do. But, among the trade offs is, speed of reloading, capacity, concealability, usually... weight. There are other tradeoffs as well.
    When I help someone in selecting a gun, I usually discuss a list of those trade offs, discussion of intended purposes, but often do a bit of assessment on whether the person is likely to learn the manual of arms, care for the gun, learn to maintain it, practice with it, and try to understand it. Each person is different, different uses have different better ‘fit’ tools.
    As for the number of rounds, what many advocates, particularly those that haven’t been in a fight, suggest is six is enough. If so, why aren’t, given the supposed advantages, aren’t the military and LE agencies still issuing them as standard for duty? Then too, the concept of spray and pray often given as a sort of left hand insult to many gun users, often naively is a product to those that under intense adrenaline rushes that haven’t trained with their guns or also fail to understand a gun can be used to suppress an attack enabling an escape if nessessary. While not completely analogous, when I hear ‘why does the need for so many rounds’ I think about the native Americans in the SW who at one point in that history, counted the number of those they were attacking, feigned attack with a small group, counted the number of shots fired figuring their prey were using single shot front stuffers, then attacked when they figured reloading was occurring. Worked well, until Captain Walker got his revolvers for his men from Colt. Then too, compounding Custer’s tactical errors, was a major factor cited by modern historians, the huge disparity in fire power of his prey at the Little Big Horn many of his enemy which were armed with lever action repeaters. All Custer’s men had 6 shot revolvers.
    Then too, I was once in a 3-day engagement (not military) where I had 500 rds at the start. It wasn’t enough.
    As they say, and I occur, I don’t think too many have ever been in a fight where they lamented after that they had too much ammo. But, there are lots bodies out there that ran dry.
     
  23. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Funny how some take good care of their means of transportation, but neglect the tool that could save their life, but only if in working condition.
     
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  24. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    That, my friend, is the truth.
     
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  25. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    Right?

    I have lost count of the number of people I've interacted with who are carrying guns for self-defense they haven't so much as fired, much less tested it for reliability, and they've loaded them with some tacticool uber round they saw in an ad somewhere but have no idea if it'll even chamber when fired.
     
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