Why would anyone vote for trump when many of his former cabinet members won't

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by dairyair, Oct 14, 2024.

  1. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Former Trump officials are among the most vocal opponents of returning him to the White House

    NEW YORK (AP) — Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper has called him a “threat to democracy.” Former national security adviser John Bolton has declared him “unfit to be president.” And former Vice President Mike Pence has declined to endorse him, citing “profound differences.”

    As Donald Trump seeks the presidency for a third time, he is being vigorously opposed by a vocal contingent of former officials who are stridently warning against his return to power and offering dire predictions for the country and the rule of law if his campaign succeeds.

    It’s a striking chorus of detractors, one without precedent in the modern era, coming from those who witnessed first-hand his conduct in office and the turmoil that followed.

    Sarah Matthews, a former Trump aide who testified before the House Jan. 6 committee and is among those warning about the threat he poses, said it’s “mind-boggling” how many members of his senior staff have denounced him.

    “These are folks who saw him up close and personal and saw his leadership style,” Matthews said.

    “The American people should listen to what these folks are saying because it should be alarming that the people that Trump hired to work for him a first term are saying that he’s unfit to serve for a second term.”
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...opponents-of-returning-him-to-the-white-house

    ...xxx

    How can anyone ever think the incumbent loser is ever fit for office again.
    He failed, bigly during his last time.
    Even people he hired, he only hires the best, won't vote for such a terrible leader.
     
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  2. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

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    "Former".... and fired... they won't be "returning to the White House" themselves... check in with Milley on Jan. 21st.
    upload_2024-10-14_18-3-20.gif

     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2024
  3. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    Why would anyone trust those cut throat, backstabbing *********kers who's only reason for trying to be a part of the Trump administration was to undermine a sitting president?

    We're supposed to trust them to know what's good for the country?...lol
     
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  4. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They were hand-picked by Trump. He expected absolute loyalty to HIM. They were fired because they were instead loyal to the Constitution. They were part of his inner circle. So they KNOW him well.

    Four years of anybody who does NOT place Trump above the Constitution being fired is what awaits us, if this creep is elected. Crisis after crisis... in a never-ending cycle.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2024
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  5. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So. There is no other possible reason for them not liking Trump? Using John Bolton as an example is hilarious. No democrat would believe a thing he said a few years ago. Now, he is suddenly an authority.

    I will put it this way. Harris scares me more than Trump.
     
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  6. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    His former cabinet members are the swamp. Trump didnt understand how DC worked. Now he does. RFK and Tulsi are building his cabinet this time, instead of the GAO. I reckon a lot of the old hats are lashing out cuz they didnt get picked again.
     
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  7. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He is still the lesser of evils based on results.
     
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  8. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    because his policies and his judicial appointments are far better than the ones Biden/Harris gave us/

    end of story
     
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  9. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yeah if Trump wins, he's going to be in the same sewer pit as Bragg, and a few others
     
  10. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump had not been in government when he hired them. He didn't have a cadre of governmental operatives that he had worked with for years-unlike long time governmental types like Biden or GHWB. Many of these swamp critters were recommended to him by other establishment Republicans. They expected Trump to act like a Romney or a Cheney. He didn't because the GOP swamp was something he attacked almost as hard as the Democrat swamp. They weren't loyal to the constitution, they were loyal to the old boys club that has run Washington for decades. And Trump didn't play ball
     
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  11. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why would anyone vote for trump when many of his former cabinet members won't

    Cult of personality.
     
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  12. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You don’t have to be MAGA to vote for Trump. You don’t have to like him or even want him as the next president to vote for him. First is party loyalty. Since 2000 history has shown that 92% of republicans and 91% of democrats will vote for their party’s candidate regardless of who that candidate is. This is a fact of life in the political arena. It’s the old my party’s worst candidate is always better than your party’s best candidate. Today 90% of republicans intend to vote for Trump, 95% of democrats for Harris.

    https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_pw9W1fW.pdf

    Second is political ideology, political beliefs, values, ideals. You’re not going to get many conservatives to vote for a liberal/progressive and vice versa. Again, regardless of who the candidates are. There’s too wide a gap between the political ideologies, philosophies for much of that to happen. It’s anathema to vote for someone who holds the opposite political beliefs that you do. You don’t want that someone to lead this country in a direction you deem bad for it. Today 88% of conservatives plan on voting for Trump, 89% of liberals for Harris.

    Third which I include independents, the non-affiliated, the less to non-partisans in this group. How one deems or views the job the Biden administration which includes VP Harris has done over this last 4 years. 41.3% of all Americans approve of the job Biden and his administration has done as president, 56% disapprove. These folks just want someone other than Biden, democrats and Harris in hopes of changing the poor job done into a better job done. Their personal situation is worst off today under Biden than it was under Trump. Today, independents are leaning toward Trump 40-38 over Harris which makes this race a tie in my book.

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/joe-biden/approval-rating

    Then you have 28.4% of all Americans who think the Biden administration which includes VP Harris has this country headed in the right direction, 61.3% think it’s headed in the wrong direction.

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/state-of-the-union/direction-of-country

    MAGA, Trumpers probably make up a quarter or a bit less of the electorate. So why is Trump getting 47% of the intended vote in the polls. It’s for the above reasons which just touches on why non-MAGA, non-Trumpers, non-affiliated, even those who dislike Trump and don’t want him as president again are planning on voting for him. There are as many folks out there who don’t like Harris and the democrats as dislike Trump and the republicans. Voting for the lesser of two evils, the least disliked candidate, the candidate one wants to lose the least.

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/po...4/trump-vs-harris-vs-kennedy-vs-stein-vs-west
     
  13. StillBlue

    StillBlue Well-Known Member

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    So you are suggesting that he hires bad people, even at the cabinet and VP level. I agree, he's an ignorant fool.
     
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  14. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Why would anyone vote for trump when many of his former cabinet members won't
    ---
    My simple answer is I decide whom I'll vote for based on the candidate, not based on what a group of people are saying. It's called 'don't let anyone think for you'.
     
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  15. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that is his real coup
     
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  16. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sad to say but that's a good analysis.

    Probably the last factor to factor in is voter motivation, turnout and the electoral dynamics.

    Harris voters are relying on Trump revulsion to get her over the line. That may not be enough.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2024
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  17. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What are you talking about? General Milley was appointed Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff by Trump. And HE says Trump "is a fascist". Mark Esper was appointed Secretary of Defense by TRUMP, and he said that Trump is "a threat to Democracy". Mark Kelly, Trump's former Chief of Staff, said that Trump "has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law.".... Sarah Matthews, John Bolton, ... and on and on. Trump's hand-picked inner circle.

    The people who worked MOST closely with Trump are telling us that Trump is a THREAT to this country. And you're not paying attention.

    If Trump is elected, it will be at least four years of complete chaos. And we will thank the people who voted for him for the disaster. Because they're not paying attention to Trump's own allies!
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2024
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  18. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually it means something else that mods would probably not want us to state explicitly.

    So let's put it this way: The people who WORKED with Trump. The ones who know him best. People who have every reason to be grateful with Trump because he gave them these great promotions... They are all telling us of the disaster the next four years will be if Trump is elected. And you just refuse to listen to FACTS.

    Don't let anyone make your opinions for you. But this is not a matter of opinions. They are TELLING us what they SAW.
     
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  19. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Out of loyalty for the man and the party he represents.

    Neither had many of the people he surrounded himself with, which is probably why so many ended up in prison for the crimes they committed while serving him,

    Are you saying that this time round he will hire only people with no government experience....... as if that's a good thing.....?
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2024
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  20. Outsidethebox

    Outsidethebox Newly Registered

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    When a person calls everyone around him crazy, who is really the crazy one? Harris had 34 years of REAL work experience as a PUBLIC SERVANT. Trump SERVED HIMSELF ALONE his entire life, with the help of a team that served him. Trump never served anyone but himself.

    1. Mike Pence: “The American people deserve to know that President Trump asked me to put him over my oath to the Constitution. … Anyone who puts himself over the Constitution should never be president of the United States.”

    2. Bill Barr: “Someone who engaged in that kind of bullying about a process that is fundamental to our system and to our self-government shouldn’t be anywhere near the Oval Office.”

    3. James Mattis: “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people – does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us.”

    4. Mark Esper: “I think he’s unfit for office. … He puts himself before country. His actions are all about him and not about the country. And then, of course, I believe he has integrity and character issues as well.”

    5. Gen. Mark Milley: “We don’t take an oath to a wannabe dictator. We take an oath to the Constitution and we take an oath to the idea that is America – and we’re willing to die to protect it.”

    6. Rex Tillerson: “(Trump’s) understanding of global events, his understanding of global history, his understanding of US history was really limited. It’s really hard to have a conversation with someone who doesn’t even understand the concept for why we’re talking about this.”

    7. Nikki Haley: “He used to be good on foreign policy and now he has started to walk it back and get weak in the knees when it comes to Ukraine. A terrible thing happened on January 6 and he called it a beautiful day.”

    8. His presidential transition vice-chairman, Chris Christie: “Someone who I would argue now is just out for himself.”

    9. His second national security adviser, HR McMaster: “We saw the absence of leadership, really anti-leadership, and what that can do to our country.”

    10. His third national security adviser, John Bolton: “I believe (foreign leaders) think he is a laughing fool.”

    11. His second chief of staff, John Kelly: “A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law. There is nothing more that can be said. God help us.”

    12. His former acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, who resigned as US special envoy to Ireland after January 6, 2021: “I quit because I think he failed at being the president when we needed him to be that.”

    13. One of his many former communications directors, Anthony Scaramucci: “He is the domestic terrorist of the 21st century.”

    14. Another former communications director, Stephanie Grisham: “I am terrified of him running in 2024.”

    15. His secretary of education, Betsy DeVos, who resigned after January 6: “When I saw what was happening on January 6 and didn’t see the president step in and do what he could have done to turn it back or slow it down or really address the situation, it was just obvious to me that I couldn’t continue.”

    16. His secretary of transportation, Elaine Chao, who resigned after January 6: “At a particular point the events were such that it was impossible for me to continue, given my personal values and my philosophy.

    17. His first secretary of the Navy, Richard Spencer: “…the president has very little understanding of what it means to be in the military, to fight ethically or to be governed by a uniform set of rules and practices.”

    18. His first homeland security adviser, Tom Bossert: “The President undermined American democracy baselessly for months. As a result, he’s culpable for this siege [Jan 6], and an utter disgrace.”

    19. His former personal lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen: “Donald’s an idiot.”

    20. His White House lawyer, Ty Cobb: “Trump relentlessly puts forth claims that are not true.”

    21. A former director of strategic communications, Alyssa Farah Griffin, who is now a CNN political commentator: “We can stand by the policies, but at this point we cannot stand by the man.”

    22. A top aide in charge of his outreach to African Americans, Omarosa Manigault Newman: “Donald Trump, who would attack civil rights icons and professional athletes, who would go after grieving black widows, who would say there were good people on both sides, who endorsed an accused child molester; Donald Trump, and his decisions and his behavior, was harming the country. I could no longer be a part of this madness.”

    23. A former deputy press secretary, Sarah Matthews, who resigned after January 6: “I thought that he did do a lot of good during his four years. I think that his actions on January 6 and the lead-up to it, the way that he’s acted in the aftermath, and his continuation of pushing this lie that the election is stolen has made him wholly unfit to hold office every again.”

    24. His final chief of staff’s aide, Cassidy Hutchinson: “I think that Donald Trump is the most grave threat we will face to our democracy in our lifetime, and potentially in American history.”

    24 former Trump allies and aides who turned against him | CNN Politics
     
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  21. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    the point is-until Trump was president, he had not been in government. He didn't have years of experience working with other political operatives so he mainly was relying on the advice of others as to who to hire.
     
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  22. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump won the primaries and thus means the party's members picked him. You seem to forget that the people who picked Biden forced him out and left us with someone no one wanted
     
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  23. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    I would say the proper term is his most important actions as president
     
  24. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True on motivation and voter turnout. The democrats have their motivation in being anti-Trump while the GOP has theirs in being pro-Trump. The two major parties own the horses in this race. Not so with independents, they don’t own either candidates in the way republicans and democrats do. Since they choose these two, independents didn’t choose either of them, but are asked to choose one or the other next month.


    Only around half of those who claim to be independents actually vote. Makes sense because they tend to dislike both major parties and usually both major party candidates. Independents made up 40% of the electorate in both 2016 and 2020, but only 25% who actually voted. Their incentive to vote is much less since they didn’t choose either candidate, they own neither. If independents liked either major party, they’d be republicans or democrats, not independents.


    Why is Trump leading among independents 40-38? Look at the favorable/unfavorable of both major party candidates among independents. 39% of independents have a favorable view of Harris, 53% unfavorable. 41% of independents view Trump favorably, 52% unfavorably. Who independents intend on voting for and how they view the two major party candidates are almost even.


    https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_pw9W1fW.pdf
     
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  25. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What the hell are you talking about? What does that have to do with this thread?

    This thread is about Trump being a DANGER to the country! He's a danger because he has no moral guardrails!

    He does NOT rely on others. He relies on whatever works best for HIM. And when you're dealing with dictators who want to HARM us, that puts our nation in danger. His INTENTION is and always has been to become a dictator himself. January 6 was one example. His own inner circle now tell us that he will try AGAIN. He will NOT succeed.... but the damage this will do to the country will be close to insurmountable. And by "damage to the country" I mean to YOU!
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2024
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