Woman dumped outside of hospital dies after police did not believe her

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by kazenatsu, Feb 28, 2023.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is an example of how harsh and uncaring the system can be.

    And is another example of "hospital dumping".


    Woman Dies of Stroke After Police Did Not Believe She Was Ill - YouTube

    A 60-year-old woman who had been in hospital apparently had been "dumped" outside the hospital and told to leave. She refused to leave because she felt like she was going to die and still needed medical attention. Police officers responded and threatened to haul the woman off to jail if she did not leave. In the video she looks like she was clearly in distress and could barely move or get up, but the responding officer believed it was all an act.

    The woman had broken her ankle and was in the middle of suffering from a stroke, an immediate life-threatening medical condition. The stroke was probably initiated by a blood clot that formed in the broken ankle and then moved towards her brain. If not immediately treated, a stroke can result in death or permanent brain damage. The woman had previously had a stroke 3 years before.

    "You guys are going to let me die," Lisa Edwards said, as she lied on the ground outside the hospital. "I'm going have a stroke." In the video, the woman can be heard repeatedly telling officers that she's having trouble breathing, as they tried to make the arrest.

    The officers clearly did not believe her and acted very disrespectful towards her, being completely dismissive of what she was saying.
    "Stop, okay, just stop, okay. We're not doing this. So we're going to put you back there. We're not doing this no more with you."
    "I'm not doing this with you, okay. This is the... Listen to me! ... This is the Lord's Day (Sunday), all I want to do is get me some cowpeas and oatmeal, NOT going to deal with your mess this morning. We've already spent too much time on you. You're going to get up here in this van or you're going to go to jail. We're done with you," one of the police officers sternly tells the woman.
    "I'm going to pass out," the woman says.
    "You're not going to pass out," responded the officer.
    The woman makes infantile noises trying to talk but seems to be having trouble talking.

    The officers eventually got her into the police vehicle, where she became unresponsive. "I don't know if she's faking it or what, but she’s not answering," an officer said.

    The woman was eventually brought back inside the hospital and placed on life support until her body finally died the next day.

    The woman had been discharged from the hospital wearing only hospital scrubs, despite the cold temperatures outside.

    You can tell in the video the woman is talking with a little bit of a funny accent and does not seem to be the most mentally coherent. This likely may have been caused by the stroke she was suffering, which ironically may have been a factor in the officers taking her claims less seriously.

    The woman did not have insurance, which was likely a factor why the hospital discharged her even though she did not want to leave, because they knew she would not have money to pay them.

    This happened right outside Fort Sanders Regional Medical Center, Knoxville, Tennessee, February 5, 2023.
     
  2. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Either very unfortunate timing or somebody at the hospital made a big mistake. No, this is not because she didn't have health insurance. Hospitals are required to treat and take the loss in this circumstance per EMTALA. Had the treating physician realized she was having a stroke she would not have been discharged. If she had been exhibiting signs of stroke before she was discharged, then the physician messed up.

    I don't blame the cops much. They deal with crazy people all the time and based upon the fact that the hospital had just told her to go, they would have reasonably assumed she had been evaluated and ruled out for serious things.
     
  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're naive enough to believe that because some vague rule exists they have to do it.

    Life doesn't work that way.

    The hospital workers can just claim they thought the woman was given all the treatment she needed. They obviously can't be required to hold every patient in the hospital who doesn't want to leave and claims they feel like they're going to die.

    Guess what. If you have insurance and say you don't feel like you're ready to leave the hospital, the hospital will be happy to allow you to stay longer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again, life isn't that simple.
    Medical treatment often doesn't work that way. Things are not known for certain and there are only probabilities, and even then medical care providers often don't know those probabilities for certain and just have to use their best guess or intuition.

    This was not merely a "mistake".
    This patient didn't have insurance and the hospital wanted the patient out of there. The hospital assumed the patient was "stabilized" and assumed or believed the patient probably was not going to immediately die. Sure, the hospital could have erred on the side of caution, but was not inclined to, since this was a non-paying customer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
  5. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    I have done training in ERs. The culture is to save people, not worry about insurance, and that is why ERs lose money. Politically incorrect old doctors do talk about Gomers (get out of my emergency room), but that’s more about overly nervous or malingering people who don’t need emergency care.

    All that said, insurance matters but more for long term treatment, not short term stabilization.

    This case, somebody may have made a clinical mistake, not based upon her insurance status
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You seem to assume the situation is the same in all hospitals in all parts of the country. Yes, it's true ERs are usually a money-losing operation for the hospital, but many hospitals try to reduce those money loses as much as possible. Especially hospitals that do not have the luxury of lots of excess money in the first place and may be financially struggling. It's easy to imagine that could be the case in a region of the country like Knoxville (which many consider to be in "Appalachia").
     
  7. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    No insurance? Is she nuts???

    I see this was in Tennessee—one of the states that didn't expand Medicaid.

    Status of State Medicaid Expansion Decisions: Interactive Map | KFF

    In this day and age, there's no excuse not to have insurance in America unless the Republicans made sure you fell through the cracks.

    Time for universal healthcare!
     

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