Women in Combat? Why?

Every single job in the military supports the Infantry in the end. Without the Infantry....you don't have a job.

 

Without the infantry...I'd be serving others. Green Berets, PJ's, Seals, Rangers, the Calvary, tankers, communication, security forces, and all of the MANY jobs that go to war that are not infantry. Again, infantry isn't (*)(*)(*)(*) without the rest of us, fact. Are you guys really going to push this absurd claim? I mean seriously, basic trainees learn that war is a team effort.......the infantry cannot stand alone.......no matter what propaganda you guys put out lol

In fact really funny fact, everyone goes to war.

I think I just found the .001% of the population who really is clueless about the military :0

 

Yes I have served. I was assigned to an infantry unit on a deployment (though my MOS was not infantry, it was a combat arms MOS) but I was used as an infantryman. I have a deep respect and appreciation for the infantry. I am honorably discharged and have since started my own business in the private sector.

It's not an absurb claim at all. Wars are ultimately decided by the infantry. You can't win wars without the infantry. When you mention special forces troops like Green Berets or Navy SEALs, to me, they are just a specialized form of infantry. Remember, it took sending in men to terminate Bin Laden. It wasn't tomahawk cruise missles or B-52 bombers or support personal who got Bin Laden in the end. It is a common mistake that non-infantry types make: looking down on the infantry and making the mistake of discounting the value and crucial and vital importance of the infantry. In the end, wars are not won by machines or technology or overwhelming firepower, they are won by human beings and ultimately the infantry.

 

First off, Green Berets, Seals, and Rangers ARE infantry. Secondly, we're not saying that everyone elses job isn't vital. Every branch and job is vital but ultimately they're there to support the infantry. I imagine you're some kind of desk jockey that isn't aware of how combat operations work. In the end you need the infantrymen to go into the bad guys houses and kill them. Every other branch/job, from pilot to seaman, ultimately supports that job.


You haven't found the .001% of the population who really is clueless about the military....you've found that .001% of the population that did two combat deployments as an Infantryman.

 

I'm not downplaying the importance of support, but quite frankly speaking, the infantry need to be the best of the best because so much rides on their shoulders when involved in dangerous high stakes warfare. A common trap for some militaries is to become "machine dependent" where a military relies too much on overwhelming firepower, air power and technology and not enough on solid, smart and good tactical technique and the human element with their infantry troops. It is the human element which wins wars.

Too often, infantry are neglected (especially in peacetime) and viewed as "expendable" or "cannon fodder" when the infantry needs to be treated as the most valuable asset of the military (it is, as I have said before, the foundation of the military and without a firm foundation, you have nothing). The best way to treat infantry well is making sure they have the toughest, smartest training which also does not make the infantry "machine dependent" or overly dependent on technology, overwhelming firepower and machines. Technology, firepower and machines are nice and good to have, but to become overly dependent on them is a trap.

 

I think Iraq and Afghanistan have made people again realize the importance of Infantry again. After the Gulf War people were mesmorized by the stealth bombers and Abrams. It's Infantry that's been doing the vast majority of the fighting in today's conflicts while the tanks and fighter jets sit idle. Counter-insurgency operations seem to be the future of Western warfare. Infantry is the only way to win these types of conflicts.

 

I agree completely. I think it's important that our infantry remain good and proficient at both counter-insurgency and the more traditional conventional warfare and should not lose skills or proficiency in either type warfare. Some enemies we could face in the future may try to throw us into confusion and attempt to overwhelm our center of gravity by attempting to use a hybrid type of warfare, which consists of both conventional and unconventional methods of warfare; so, our infantry need to be prepared and ready for that and to fight and win. Hybrid warfare could be something we face in the future as our enemies see that we have become better at conducting unconventional, counter-insurgency type operations.

 

I have respect for you infantry guys, but in all due respect, you guys have bigger egos than the (*)(*)(*)(*)ed marines. That's all I'm going to say on this topic. Thanks for the service.

Although next time we meet....don't belittle my job or commitment by saying the infantry are he only think that matters. The rest of us serve the nation too.

 

When your job is to close with and destroy the enemy at close range you tend to develop a bit of an "ego". We live the hardest and die the most, it leads to a mentality that has existed for thousands of years.

None of us said that only infantry matters, we said that ultimately in war it comes down to the infantry. You jumped in a little overzealously and tried to dismiss us. I see that your Air Force? I imagine that's why you hold your views.

I was in the Marine Corps AND an grunt....I guess I'm the worst of both worlds in your mind, haha.

 

Good infantry are modest and do not have big egos. However, good infantry also train hard and to be the best because the stakes are very high and so much rides on your shoulders when you serve in the infantry.

 

Cause WHY , Tom ?

 

I don't believe you. When and where?

I don't believe you. When and where?

 

I never belittled your job at all. But the reality and facts about warfare is that the infantry is the foundation and ultimately wars are won by the infantry. That's a fact. There is no escaping that. We also do the vast majority of the fighting and dying and paying a heavy price for this country. Most people don't understand or know about the terrible sacrifices that the infantry endure and most people don't truly understand the trauma that infantrymen through generations of American fighting men and women took to their graves.

I also feel that a lot of support guys just look down on the infantry and many others have mistakenly regarded the infantry as "expendable" or "cannon fodder." We're not "expendable" and we're not "cannon fodder." We are the ones that win the wars and we are the foundation (and I am speaking as a veteran who was assigned to the infantry and was used as such, though officially my MOS was not infantry though it was combat arms). Now, I appreciate the support guys and the support guys are important, but all too often I run across REMFs who look down on the infantry and don't appreciate the tremendous sacrifices of the infantry or what the infantry have to go through protecting this country. I was never belittling or disrespecting your job or the support guys.

 

There was no legitimate reason to drop a nuke on a civilian city. NONE! The same result could have been done by dropping one on any of numerous small islands a short distance off the coast of Japan with mostly military populations. The result would have been the same. Any one witnessing the explosion of a nuke from 15 miles of way, would have killed their own mother to prevent anymore. It was NOT necessary to kill so many civilians for such an exercise. And to do it twice, was in my opinion criminal. Nuke military targets fine! Nuking civilian targets is NOT fine. If it had taken a dozen nukes off the coast of Japan to convince the leaders of Japan that the war was over, then it would have been well worth it, without the civilian loss in life.

 

Seal training in VA Beach VA 1987

April 1967 Tay Ninh Province at a major landing zone and forward hospital.

 

A broken track is not that big a deal, nor does it require that much brawn, once you use another tank or VTR to haul the tank to a flat surface.
Any four moderately competent women in the service today could change/repai a track under any conditions that I had to. That includes the time when we slid off a hill in the mud and flipped one track under the belly, which then caused drag on the slide, turning the tank 180 degrees. The off side track, then proceeded to do the same thing, leaving a 52 ton tank, sitting on its belly on two unbroken tracks. It game new meaning to our motto (Ventre a terra or belly to the ground - although some units claimed the meaning as "with great speed"). To replace the track we first had to be towed out of the two feet of mud to a relatively hard and flat surface by a VTR. Then we broke the track and used the drive sprocket to pull the tracks from underneath the tank, then with the VTR the whole section of track was pulled out straight, a length of cable was used with the drive sprocket to pull the track across the top rollers and into place. The entire process took a 4 man takn crew and three man VTR crew about 5 hours. Most of the time was spent in towing the tank to the hard surface. As far as I recall, this was the most labor intensive track change any unit I knew of experienced. It did take some manual labor but with tanker bars and the power of the tank and VTR wench we did not actually have to do that much heavy lifting. One of the guys on the crew only weighed about 120 pounds and I was the heaviest at around 150 at the time. The hard part about this change, with is much worse than 999 out of 1000 changes was figuring out what to do, not in man/woman/muscle power.

Oh, darn, I forgot, we were wading in mud, which in places was quite deep, and we got very dirty, hmmm, maybe a woman would not have wanted to get her nails dirty (tongue in cheek).

 

Hmm, and the nation is not nearly bankrupt now?

How about a judicious use of a pair of scissors to remove some of the red tape and nonsense that the military now spends money on and use that to produce a better quality of soldier/sailor/military person.

 

Please forgive me, I was speaking of the military that I knew, and loved. The one with draftees that did what they were told. Not the social club that it has become, where people get to decide what they do, not do what they are best able to do. LOL---hehehe---(HIDING)

Oh and lets bring the draft to all 18 year-olds male and female.

 

If you have people that let unit cohesion go because a woman joins the unit, then, there is a place for those people. Send them to the stockade/brig. Replace them with men/women that can maintain unit cohesion, not rant and rave over something so idiotic as a woman in the unit.

 

Actually, IgnoranceIsBliss is spot on with a lot of his comments. The infantry does have some very intelligent people (especially in the special forces type units) and also has it's fair share of rocks. Many people assume that the military just takes the rocks and throws them into the infantry, but honestly, from my experience, I have ran across some very intelligent infantrymen (and some rocks). A good infantryman is generally of above average intelligence.

 

Well we each call people what we want to. You call them "experienced infantrymen" and I call them bigoted misogynists. And I imagine they do not listen to "experienced infantrymen" because they are not often worth listening to, at least about major policy.

 

Yep, it means that in general, from day to day, all their soldiers, male and female are in more danger from enemy action, than ours are.

 

<---bowing to the one who bows, for a short, sweet, succinct, and accurate statement----->

 

They allow you to chose your job when enlisting...provided you meet all the qualifications and pass the training. Once in, exactly what your job is can be iffy. For example I came in as an 0300 (Basic Infantry) and then at the School of Infantry I was given a "wish list" and with some luck and the proper scores was made an 0352 (Anti Tank Guided Missle Man). I could have ended up as an 0311, 0331, 0321, 0351, or an 0341. There were many guys that did NOT get their chose of jobs. When you think about it it makes sense. Soldiers today are professionals that join the military voluntarily. Why not give them some measure of control over their careers?

Due to my asvab scores they tried to convince me to take some intelligence job...crypto analyst or something along those lines. I would NOT have been happy doing that job and never would have joined if they made me take it.


Your social club comment is silly.

 

Go spend a day at a college. Watch how men and women interact with each other. We can pretend, to appease the PC crowd, that men and women can ALWAYS work together without letting sex get in the way. In reality we know that it always does, especially in the incredibly close confines of the Infantry.

Why do we still have segregated restrooms and lockerooms? In the Infantry you have none of those.