A critic of religion might argue that they love their pet rat more than the all-powerful Jesus loves his "children" because Jesus steadfastly, day after day after day, obviously refuses to give us the cure for cancer (or is he not powerful enough to create one?) So Jesus sits there day after day after day watching innocent children suffer horrific deaths due to no fault of their own, while he mercilessly withholds the cure. So if Jesus doesn't even love us as much as we love our pet vermin, then he certainly doesn't deserve our worship (or so the thinking would go.) Question: would you cure your pet rat if you had the cure for cancer? Me, as a Modern Secular Humanist, yes, of course, and I'd also give the cure to humanity ASAP, because Modern Secular Humanism cares for people. What say you?
It has been claimed that gods help those who help themselves. We are already on top of some genome projects.
If I had his magic superpowers, I'd have given the cure, because I care about those untold numbers of innocent children who have died, and will continue to die (for "x" number of years, but I don't know how many) horrific deaths. Clearly I care about humanity more than Jesus does, and of course so do most Modern Secular Humanists. Those innocent children apparently deserved to die horrific cancer deaths because they refused to "help themselves"....got it, right. I condemn Jesus...can you do that? - - - Updated - - - Then we don't really need him.
Is it a "coincidence or conspiracy" that some may sometimes think, that we got abandoned in Nexus 6 with Zardoz for being "original sinners", and, we have to get ourselves "out of it".
I ain't no "original sinner"! Tell Jesus to take his unfair collective guilt-trip and shove it! - - - Updated - - - daniel, you've craftily avoided the question in the OP up until now......would you cure your pet rat if you had the cure for cancer?
So then we both agree that you are more moral than Jesus, because you'd do the moral thing and cure your pet rat if you had the cure for cancer, but the "all-powerful" Jesus cares for all of humanity less than you'd care for your one pet vermin because of course he selfishly withholds the cure - since he can hear us, praying for example, he must have to cover his ears as he's heard millions of children with cancer scream out his name for help with their cancer "PLEASE HELP ME JESUS, HELP ME!!"....but maybe he doesn't cover his ears, because it sounds like he's not even moral. - - - Updated - - - Many Christians I've asked this question of won't.....their intellectual cowardice disgusts me.
Standardized topics from your end I feel, which try to put theists in doubt of their beliefs. Topics of this kind I feel I read from your end quite a few times, and as an Atheist myself I want to jump to the defense of Theists in this topic. The question in my mind is, what you really hope to achieve by these morality question-topics. Do you really think that religious people will read that and go "right!" and become Atheists after this revelation? Or do you think you make the roll their eyes, go into a defensive mode and become even more hardline avid supporters of their beliefs? Personally, I think it's last. If someone keeps needling me for being an Atheist I tend to defend myself and become more passionate about my views. If people leave me alone, I'd never even think about it or become passionate. Is the point to discuss morality of God or simply questioning faith in general? I hope you as a NSH know that theists will standard reply with "God works in mysterious ways." and "he has a plan for all of us." Considering the topic and the way the question is posed I have a question of my own: Did you become a MSH because people came to your doorstep and needled you to join, or because you reached the conclusion on your own?
Only in that vacuum of special pleading. What if, hypothetically and in that alternative, He would have simply refreshed our minds with that (Perfect) Knowledge (of Good and Evil) of that discipline, but we simply and merely, didn't have enough Faith in Him.
well that is because God's help no one, so some people give God's credit for those that really helped themselves
You sound quite intellectual and open to new ideas, and I like that. You raise a good question. That question sounds like something a person (I'm not saying you, however) would say in trying to excuse god...someone who didn't really care about humanity as much as Modern Secular Humanism did. God could just not make the bar so high that we'd fail that faith test. He can allegedly see the future of what's going to happen anyway.
I can't believe how far off you are on this (no offense, as I do appreciate the feedback you gave.) The reason that you won't change your views (as an atheist) if "needled" is because you believe the TRUTH. So the more this topic of religion vs. atheism is discussed the more you become an atheist, but religious people are DELUSIONAL, what with their invisible magic "angels/demons/hell/devil/jinns/Jesus/heaven/god" and whatnot, so the more it's discussed/dissected the more they LEAVE their religion, just like I did. I wish these arguments had been proposed to me much earlier in life! I can't believe how stupid I was! What the heck was I thinking!? A man living inside a fish for 3 days, crap, Tolkein doesn't even propose stuff that insane in Lord of the Rings! No, every time they see a great argument like in the OP they pause, and have to perform painful mental gymnastics to keep their religious beliefs consistent with logic and the real world. We. Are. Winning. - - - Updated - - - You would likely answer "yes" to the OP's question, so feel good that you are more moral than most all the Christians I've ever met (you're not a Christian I realize) because they aren't moral enough to answer "yes" to this question. You are not an intellectual coward, and I admire you for that.
In an amazing "coincidence"....the amount of "Free Will that God gives us" is exactly equal in appearance and application to our lives as if.... He didn't exist at all.
While I've become very sceptical of the bible, you fail to grasp the concept that our existence in the presence, to God/Jesus, is a short temporary existence in preparation for eternity. We are all dying of something and at sometime. Your godless mindset is likened to a cat standing in water freaking out about the drop of water on his nose.
Do we really know the "whole story" regarding infidelism, protestantism, and renegadeism to a god; regarding an ArchAngel.
That's what they want you to believe so that they can suck you dry at the collection plate, and to better control you. One good example of control is in Islam: FGM is meant to reduce women's sexual pleasure so that they can better be controlled by men - women with control over their own bodies tends to scare Muslim men, and that's why Mohammad approved of that practice. - - - Updated - - - Gorn is on the thread, I feel better already! Yes, incredibly, God gives us the exact same amount of free-will as Zeus gives us, and Thor and Loki too!
I am not sure if all of the ancients texts have been discovered, which may shed some light on this subject.
Yes, agreed - I'm sure we'll find at least one text that says "look it's a con, it's a ruse, get out while you can, and, also, er, uh, wait, there's a knock at my door - it looks like that Jesus guy is back again, I'll continue after I get the door......"
Too bad Jesus isn't real or he could magically see that, in the last 2000 years, we do indeed get all the ancient texts discovered. Too bad, really. It would be GREAT to actually have an all-powerful entity....he could warn us about tsunamis (would have saved about 240,000 innocent lives in Aceh in 2004), warn us about tornadoes (Jesus just laughs every time he creates an "act of god", and fails to warn us), give us the cure for ALS (he would of course know it), etc. Too bad there's not a god, drat.
The political, right wing is doing that already. I sometimes have to wonder, if, after, "In the Beginning..." they are just practicing the abomination of hypocrisy and complaining about sex in modern times.
Tacitus claimed an emperor had to, "perform some miracles", "to compete with that alleged god". Roman emperors were also declared gods, at some time or another.
