Would you republicans vote for a $12 minimum wage?

How in the world would government determine if the 12 dollars was being paid to someone producing 7 dollars worth of labor or someone producing 12 dollars worth of labor?

 

Exploitation would mean they are being forced to work for a substandard wage, which no one in this country legally is. Words mean things, please try to use them correctly. People who are working for the minimum wage are doing so because they have AGREED to do so. That cannot be "exploitation". Your misuse of that word is merely an attempt to appeal to emotion.

Few who are working for the minimum wage are paying rent. Minimum wage workers are almost all 16-19 years old. Most of them are living with their parents and in school.

 

The people who hire them should make that determination. Most of them could not afford to pay very much for unskilled labor. Local, state and federal government should make up the difference.

 

God forbid they decide to get a roommate...​

 

No chance of exploiting the taxpayer there...

 

How market sales work: You can have 1 economy grade for $7 or 2 for $12
You can have 1 family pack for $10 or 2 for $18.
You can also have 1 platinum elite for $20 and 2 for $39.

How minimum wage works: $7 is clearly exploitation. The least you can pay is $12 for one and $24 for 2. Take it or leave it.

 

Okay, maybe you didn't read:

On $15 I would agree. Which is why I am going with Sen. Manchin, recommendation for $11 ( or so, hence the title of the OP, remember? ) since that is what it was historically ( in the 60s, adjusting for inflation) when unemployment was 3.8% and we don't need the CBO for that one, because we have history as proof.

 

So here's the pattern. I meticulously pick apart your claim. You respond by restating your claim.

The same problems that exist at $15 also exist at $12. They exist at $10, $5, and $2. They exist at any price point that is commanded above the market value of the thing that is being traded. I don't know what I have to do to explain to you that value sets price, not the other way around. If something goes up in value, price will naturally follow. If something does not sell at the price you want, you can't get it to sell by simply raising the price.

Wage is the price of labor. Raising the wage without a commiserate increase in value will only recalibrate the wage to the actual value of the trade. It doesn't matter if I pay you 5, 10, 20, 15, or 100. What matters is the actual value those numbers represent.

 

Inflation is the value decrease, that is the result of too many dollars chasing too few goods, resulting in the value of each dollar decreasing.

There are more than one way it happens, but all of them result in a money supply swelling at a rate faster than productivity can keep up with it.

The most salient way it happens is when the fed lowers the discount rate to member banks ( the wholesale rate ).

THere are other ways, which i think I mentioned (fractional reserve, etc )

I really don't care how many schools of economics there are, this is how it happens. For prices to go up, and stay up, more money than goods MUST occur, by whatever means. in every case, it's the federal reserve in cahoots with member banks that do it.

 

If you are saying we can't raise the minimum wage to $10 or $11, I say bullshit.

Anything less than $10 an hour, which is just enough to live in the cheapest town in America, is substandard.

 

This is the logic to justify exploitation.

there are people in china who work 16 hours a day, for $2 dollars a day. They can only afford a bunk to sleep on in an 8 bunk per room apartment.

By your definition they are not being exploited.

Horseshit. Some people's bargaining position are such that they perceive they have little option but to accept what is offered

Offering what the corporation thinks they can get away with, is a recipe for exploitation

You seem to think everyone has the luxury of turning down work. well, if the only jobs available pay a substandard wage, and you are starving, what do you do? These individuals are ripe for exploitation.

This is why there has to be a minimum, for FORCE corporations to NOT exploit and pay a livable wage.

Thre is the case of Walmart assisting in food drive because their lowest paid employees could not afford food.

https://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-employee-food-drive-2014-11

How about paying them enough that they don't have to seek help from the community, what Walmart should be paying in the first place?

 

When your options are:Take this job and able to pay rent, food, bills or don't take the job not pay for those things and be kicked out to the street. Then yep its forced.

 

The average wage of hourly workers at WalMart is $14.76/hr

 

You keep telling me about the quantitative theory of inflation. I already know it. If you truly believe that the quantitative theory is the only explanation for inflation you should do two things. You should demand a balanced budget from your government. The most salient way it happens is when the government prints money to spend on its expenses. Step 2 is to burn any currency you currently own, because that currency is a sunk cost, and you will increase that value of any future currency you earn. I doubt you're in favor of either.

 

Another thing you have to figure in is the actual difference in labor between the minimum wage in 1968 and now in 2021.

Modern technology has made low skilled labor much less intensive than 60 years ago. The guy taking your order at MacDonald's in 1968 had to have a much higher level of skill than the guy taking your order today...

 

You dIdn't do squat. All you have done is make vacuous claims. I REFUTED IT WITH EVIDENCE.

cbo DOESN'T REFUTE HISTORICAL EVIDENCE.

THAT IS WHY I RESTATED MY REBUTTAL.

 

So what, averages mean some are getting more, and some are getting less.

The food drive was for those who were getting LESS. In other words, NOT ENOUGH to buy food.

 

I'm all for a balanced budget. cut the bloated military budget in half, and a progressive tax above $600k per year, or something similar.

 

The 50% who are getting less are below average workers. The 15% or so who are making less than YOUR target wage are WAY below average, and there is nothing but their own apathy standing between them and $12/hr working for WalMart.

 

You've surprised me with this post.

The only money the government has, is taxpayer's money. So if I understand your statement, you feel that taxpayers should donate to the individuals and businesses who choose to pay people a MW of $12?

 

wages should be based on actual energy expended doing the job. This includes energy required for metabolism, so I guess absolute minimum wage should be based on how much energy they expend just sitting there. Hard labor would be paid a lot more. Jobs that require a lot of education that are not energy intensive would still get paid more, because they would be getting paid for all the energy that was expended in receiving that education, which amounts to quite a lot. The economy needs to be based on actual energy exchanges, not margins. Ideas such as compound interest, and any other concept that magically creates money that is not based solely on exchange of energy should be eliminated. that would fix so many problems in this world once we get over the chaos that the adjustment period would entail.

 

the point is that they should be paid enough to buy food.

What's the problem? (It was $11)

 

What happens to inflation when the value of the labor produced is less than the value of the food they want to purchase with that labor?

 

The taxpayers could not be more exploited than they are by the current system.
A rational criminal justice system can easily eliminate almost all fraud.
Expect that reform any day now.

 

1. Take revenue now controlled by the corrupt bipartisan political class and its Deep State.
2. Transfer control of that revenue to the productive working class.
3. Start expanding the size and power opposition's voter base.