Would you risk your life for your political enemy?

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Yes, I would save Hitler. I would then turn him over for trial by proper authorities, then ask as a reward to be present at his execution.

I am not God, you are not God. Nobody gives individuals the right to take matters into their own hands. Period.

Of course, we have had similar conversations in the past, and I am really not surprised. To you a great many people seem to be classified as subhuman, and have no rights to anything. And you seem to love the idea of throwing the military at any enemies you think you have, while never having served yourself.

 

Some I might save, some I might let drown.

Consider if it was 1940 and Hitler was drowning in front of you, would you save him and condemn many millions more to death?

You would save hiim, he would go on to murder millions and cause untold misery, and then after he commits heinous crimes against humanity, you would condemn and execute them?

By saving him, knowing he would commit crimes, did you contribute to his future crimes and do you share guilt in these crimes?

Political beliefs have consequences. The situation is no different than saving a known murderer knowing he would commit more murders.

 

You meet the Unabomber, he asks yo to drive him to the store so he can buy parts to make a bomb and kill people. You drive him to the store, he gets his parts, makes a bomb, and kills people. You are tried and convicted as an accomplice.

You save Hitler from drowning knowing his politics and knowing he will kill millions tomorrow, and he does. Why is that different from giving the Unabomber a ride?

 

Well, considering that hitler actually did things.. maybe that was a bad example. So i'll ask the same thing exept with some one who only shares his views while not having done anything.

What else other than individuals are capable of taking matters into their hands?

I wouldn't say subhuman, because I don't ascribe perfection and faultlessness to humanity. But I'm proud to say that some people deserve to die, and that people should have the right to protect themselves, with lethal force if necessary. And no, stop with that strawman. I don't want to send the military at everyone I disagree with. And that I haven't served is irrelevant.

 

Yes, and then complete the actual process here. You let him drown. Fine, you now have a dead Hitler.

Why, who then is the leader of Nazi Germany? Why, none other then an even more insane murderer, Heinrich Himler.

So actually, I would bet that even more would have died. Because I believe that Himler would not have been as agressive in war as Hitler was (he likely would have not attacked the Soviet Union when Hitler did), and the war would have likely dragged on for far longer. And with more resources available, the Final Solution would have moved along full steam ahead, pretty much killing all the Jews, Romani, and other undesireables in Europe.

First of all, are you God, to look at somebody and say "Oh, in 5 years he is going to become a mass murderer!"? "Oh look at that woman, she is going to kill her children next week!"

If anybody believes that, then they need to be locked up for the protection of everybody. You are trying to make a comparison, with things that have nothing to do with each other.

I could not care the politics of Ted Kaczynski, he was a murderer, plain and simple (his actual politics are Anarcho-primitvism, like those of the ELF). If you give him a ride knowing what he is going to do, yes you are an accessory. If you give him a ride and do not know what he is doing, you have done nothing wrong.

And all politics have extremists. Myself, I reject extremists of both sides. I do not care if you are Radical Right, Radical Left, or Radical anything. If you are radical, I want nothing to do with you. But that still does not mean I want to see them dead, or would not try to save them.

But how come in just about every thread we are both in, you are wanting to send the military in against somebody you do not like? Come on my friend, this is not the first time this has come up. So it can't be a strawman, if I see you repeatedly saying that the military should be sent in against people you do not like.

And no, it is not irrelevant. To me, an individual who screams that the military should do this and the military should do that, but is unwilling to actually serve themselves is rather contemptable. To individuals like this, the military is simply a killing machine, and they actually show more contempt for us then those we actually end up fighting.

I have much more respect for the honest enemies we are fighting now, then I do for individuals that want me to go in someplace and slaughter just because they do not like the politics of the other person. I find nothing but utter contempt for individuals like that.

 

Does political extremism go too far? Hitler was an extremist. His politics killed millions. In 1944, if you were given the task of sniping Hitler, would you do it? But you would still not let him drown?

From your comment it seems that knowing (or not knowing) their future action is irrelevent, you would save the extremist no matter how extreme.

 

In gator's case you knew the intentions of the people you were given the choice to save you your question to wheter or not he is god is irrelevant.

What you've posted as a reply to me is a fallacy: That I want to send the military on some people is true, that I don't agree with those people is true. But those two facts does not mean that I want to send the military on everyone I don't agree with. You have simply made a logical error, knowingly or not. I do not for example want to send the military on you, even though you, in your reply to one of the strawmen you made, indirectly called me contemptible. Ad hominems, logical fallacies, and strawmen..

 

I intend to be a millionaire. Charles Manson intended to set off a race war that would leave him as king of the world.

Intent does not nessicarily matter for much of anything, it is the action that determins these things. I am sure a great many people intended a great many things, that never happened. Sometimes I get ticked off at somebody and consider murdering them. However, I know I will never do it. But should I be convicted because I might have done so?

Sorry, thankfully The Minority Report is only a novella and movie.

 

We're not talking about might have, we are talking about absolute certainty. false analogy

 

David Cameron represent everything I dislike in politics. He is a former PR-guru, ex-Eton and 9/10 I totally disagree with the man's opinions/views on society and politics. He is my political enemy. However I have a lot of respect for the man. He truly believes he is doing the right thing, trying to do the right thing for Britain. For that I will not only respect the man, I would quite easily save his life. But then I would almost everyone life.

 

Look, you are only trying to get me to say that I would kill my political enemy. Or that I would not save them.

And forgive me, but that is obviously how you believe, it is not how I believe.n You see the world as "us" and "them", and the group marked "them" has little reason to live.

That is fine, I know your beliefs, you have shown them to us enough time. You think nothing of invading other nations if they do not agree with you, consider foreigners quite often to be inferior, and so on and so on and so on. That is fine, enjoy your Fantasyland.

And it makes me happy every time you try to find a way to get me to think like you do, and fail.

 

Depends on the political enemy.

 

You get quite a kick out of misinterpretating whatever I say don't you? I don't agree with you but yet I'd try help you if my life wasn't endangered by it, even though you are always trying to portray me as some genocidal maniac and making strawmen. To let people die I reserve for people that already are evil or that have plans to become. Putting my own life in danger I reserve for people I care about only.

And please stop with that pretentious moral superiority thing you supposedly have. You may have read what I've said but you obviously fail to understand even a tiniest bit of it. Actually, your way of reasoning and inability to read propertly is shown at the last posts of my http://www.politicalforum.com/warfare-military/256115-savages-destroying-historical-buildings-2.html thread. Why don't you respond to that eh?

 

My political enemies are the capitalist class. Seeing as I'm willing to participate in a revolution to institute real democracy, no, I would not risk my life to save them.
I would risk my life to save a worker suffering from false consciousness but that is a different matter - he himself would be a victim of the system's brainwashing.

 

Probably not.

 

Actually, it covers a lot more threads then that one, but fine.

Even if it was only this one alone with no others, I still find your ideas reprehensible. As you have said yourself in this thread, you only find value in the life of people who's politics agree with your own. As so many in this thread seem to believe, to you politics is more important then anything else.

And I do not care which side of the political spectrum that is. Far right, far left, to me it is all rather disgusting. WHen you put some concept such as "politics" or "religion" as more important then human life, then you are well along the path that Hitler and Stal both believed in. And ultimately, no human life at all matters to individuals like that.

 

No, I haven't said that. If some people want to carry out violent acts againt people based on their poltical ideology I would not want to save them. So it's about the potential violence, not that I disagree with them. Though I probably do disagree with them if they are potentially violent. I disagree with you but you do not, as far as I know, want to kill people in the name of an ideology. So I'd save you, unless my own life was endangered in the process of course. I do not, after all, know you. you're just a stranger. I'd choose my cat over you, and you're free to do the same in regards to me. And if I had to choose between two strangers and everything is equal except that one of them agrees with me politcally I'd chose that one that agrees with me. So it has some weight but very little, one of the last things I'd base my decision to save them or not on. There's my stance on this issue, I think many would agree actually. Now please, stop misunderstand me.

 

As I said, you see no value in human life. No reason to get so defensive about it, it is simply the way you are.

I however am not that way. I have a dog I love very much, he has been with us for over 10 years. But if given a choice between saving a stranger or my dog, I choose the stranger. I would even as you say pick to choose the life of a known "political adversary" over my own dog, because I value humans more then animals.

No reason to get so defensive about your choices, unless you are somehow ashamed of them and feel that you must go to such lengths to justify them. Be proud of your beliefs, and those you share them with.

 

Is it any wonder that I get "defensive" when you say that I have no regard for human life and goes on and compares me with hitler and stalin? I'm not ashamed of anything I've said on these forums. And choosing my cat over you only means that I value people/cats that I know and have lived with higher than people I've never seen before and/or doesn't mean anything to me. And stop that "it's the way you are" attitude, as if you know anything. Really annoying I tell ya.

 

Sorry, but I am quoting you. You value your cat over people. That by itself shows what you think of human life, and you said it yourself.

But you are in good standing, Hitler so loved Blondi that he was inconsolable when she died.

[video=youtube_share;gLnPamdtI1A]http://youtu.be/gLnPamdtI1A[/video]

 

. . .

Yes, my cat is worth infinitely more to me than you are. I'll leave it at that since you are incapable of conducting a proper discussion. I really can't spend all my time doing this.

 

I wouldn't risk my life for any person unless I had a personal relationship with them.

 

mushroom feels sorry for you.

 

i dunno