I know I’m a little late to the party, but I’d like to wish everyone a happy Pride Month. I’d like to get a conversation going with those that think that being gay/lesbian/bi is wrong and or bad. Would prefer to keep the conversation away from the topic of trans people for the time being, though I’d be fine with the conversation naturally heading in that direction if that ends up being the natural flow. I’ll start off with my arguments. I do not believe it is wrong to be gay. It is merely an expression of human sexuality. Any arguments that could be made against gay people would be equally applicable to heterosexuals and I don’t see any problems with them. Oh, and as the title suggests, I’d like to keep this a facts over feelings discussion. Please try to avoid religion and other non-falsifiable arguments.
It was a bit of a throwback to his oft cited, seldom held to catch phrase of “Facts don’t care about your feelings.” Sorry that the opening post didn’t make that more clear.
Clearly not wrong by the moral standard of harm to others against their consent. I would argue there is no other logical moral standard, though ethics can still be difficult. Not in this case. If two adults are gay, whether by choice or birth is irrelevant, it's fine because nobody is being harmed against their consent.
I feel that there is, but I’m happy to try to better engage you. Would you like me to find someone saying something anti-gay for us to argue about?
He’s making a joke about Shapiro. You seem to think there’s no basis for a discussion without his inclusion. See the difference?
I was trying to help address your confusion. But I failed at that. I’m sorry. But hey, if you’re so horned up to talk about the man, feel free to provide what ever quote or article you find relevant.
I'm not confused at all.... You obviously are not trying to have a serious conversation here. But just to humor me.... Who or what are you speaking about when you say the "Shapiro edition" ?
My goal was to encourage a good ol’ “Facts don’t care about your feelings” discussion. That’s all. Just wanted us all to be good little logic-brained boys and girls.
Then you have a problem right from the get go of your premise. The terms "good' and "bad" are subjective terms and are very much tied into feelings. Good and bad don't care about facts, at least not until you surround them with subjective conditions and then use those conditions to measure them by. There simply is no fact that someone consenting makes the situation "not bad". Even among many of the LBGT supporters, you will find those who will tell you that BDSM is bad and abuse even though the bottom type (whatever their level) consented to what happened to them.
Hey if nothing else, you learned about looking at the perspective. I think your topic in general is worthy. You just tried to frame opinions into a logic frame. Maybe something with regards to how we deal with the topic within law. Just think lesson learned and try again. I know what little discourse I've encountered you in has been enjoyable, whether I agreed with your point or not.
Seems like a worthy topic given I've recently seen it asserted in another thread that homosexuality is wrong but haven't seen a logical reason for why anybody thinks that. Some, but not all, conservatives have accepted it's not wrong, or at least isn't wrong in a sense the law deals with. I ignored the Shapiro stuff, knew it was some reference I'm unfamiliar with.
The source of a quote does not automatically invalidate the idea conveyed by what was said. I don't have to agree with Shapiro's ideas overall to see the truth in the statement "Reality doesn't care your feelings." It is a statement that can be used by both sides in any given disagreement, especially one where previous knowledge is being supplanted by claimed new knowledge. Right now, we have the whole thing where both side of the transgender issue are effectively saying the same thing to each other. "Reality doesn't care about your feelings. Science shows that transgenders don't exist." "Reality doesn't care about your feelings. Science shows that transgenders exist." And that is not an invitation to start a thread jack on transgenders and whether they are real or not.
