Your chance to elect a Founding Father as President----Ron Paul 2012

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Badmutha, Dec 30, 2011.

  1. Someone

    Someone New Member

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    By ignoring the partisan concerns? By sneering down at the mere partisans? That way lies fascism. Partisanship is an expression of political interest; it's a healthy, vital part of any working democratic system. Only fascists and control freaks try to diminish that vital expression.

    Always with the presumption that the elite can decide what policies are most attractive to their constituents. That's an implicit assumption that the constituents are too stupid to decide for themselves what is most attractive--that they must be offered a policy package prepared by elites. We don't need more of that sort of politics.

    You can pretty much give up appealing to a wide audience then. No one likes the original boundaries of the constitution. Even Ron Paul isn't that crazy.

    There are no such fundamental values. It's a dangerous illusion to believe that Americans have ever agreed on a set of fundamental values.

    Easy to say, hard to do. How do you manufacture innovation? It seems silly. Innovation either happens or it doesn't, you can't force it on schedule like bowel movements on a high-fiber diet.

    "You can be a left-fascist or a right-fascist, no matter, because I'll be the fascist for you!" I don't see how you could reconcile theological fascism like that promoted by the religious right with libertarian socialism from the anarchists on the left. They're not even remotely compatible.
     
  2. Someone

    Someone New Member

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    Nope. The constitution is real, and so were the founding fathers. They were real people, flaws and all. Ron Paul represents the mythological understanding of those people--it's a sort of viewpoint that excises all of their problems to build them up into paragons of virtue, forethought, and selfless sacrifice. Those men were anything but.

    To be honest, politicians today aren't that much different than the founding fathers. Perhaps the politicians today are a little more tame and responsive to the people.
     
  3. jor

    jor New Member

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    They are exactly like the founding fathers except for the fact they ignore the Constitution and pass bills that do not follow the Constitution.
     
  4. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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    No, by acknowledging partisan concerns, by considering each side's ideas legitimate, and concocting remedies to complex issues. I am not a fascist.

    In regards to your other comments, I do not want to ignore the concerns of constituents. On the contrary, I intend to listen to all constituents. The goal is to take up their concerns as legitimate, to acknowledge that "all politics is local." From the citizenry's concerns, you create policy.

    I would contend your statements that there are no such fundamental values. Almost every American believes our politicians should be accountable to we the people. Almost every Americans believes in equality of opportunity over equality of result. Almost every American believes that economic inequality is a harsh reality that can never be eliminated. Almost every Americans believes that we all deserve freedom of speech, religion, and assembly. These are the fundamental values that all Americans can agree on. Once you get passed these basic values, people splinter.

    The Constitution is a living document. I am not a literalist or originalist. I try to adhere to the current Constitution and its values as much as possible when creating policy, but I also have to frame policy in regards to the economic, political, and social climate.

    Innovation is something that can manufactured. Have you ever come up with an innovative idea? If so, then you have manufactured it through thought and reason. Now, manufacturing innovation cannot be done on schedule, it is something that comes in the form of an epiphany. I fully understand this. However, my political mind is perpetual. I am always analyzing and developing solutions to help this great nation. I think my likelihood of creating innovative policy is better than a disaffected constituent. Furthermore, my approach to policy is different than a politician. I have a bit of a technocratic mindset. Therefore, I am able to think like a member of a brain trust, but conduct myself like a savvy public speaker.

    To conclude, everything that I state here is a matter of perspective. My viewpoint on politics is certainly different from yours. I consider this to be healthy. Nothing wrong from differences in ideology.
     
  5. Someone

    Someone New Member

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    Yeah, tell that to John Adams and the sponsors of the Alien and Sedition Acts.

    Because, you know, none of the founding fathers ever tried to violate the constitution. Because all of them were entirely in agreement with every god "blessed" letter in the thing. :fart:
     
  6. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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    Correct, many of them did. In the Constitutional Convention, there was contentious debate between those that supported the Virginia Plan, and those that support the New Jersey Plan, with a few that supported Hamilton's Plan. After the Convention, the Central Bank debate became the most polarizing issue. Washington and Hamilton favored its creation, whereas Jefferson and Madison opposed such a measure. I tend to identify with James Madison and George Washington. However, I also sympathize with Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton.
     
  7. ModerateG

    ModerateG New Member

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    I had no problem with Ron Paul until he started bullcrapping about being racist.

    He obviously used to be. It's all there. Instead of admitted it and saying he's not racist anymore and explaining how he's learned it's classic politician DENY DENY DENY...

    I officially think all the GOP candidates are crazy except Romney.
     
  8. plant

    plant New Member

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    Oh captain hair gel has no back bone stands for nothing , that's why you hardly seen many interviews of him this election cycle scared , Obama will eat him alive . Great post op. Paul is not a rascist find one video of Paul spewing any of that crap , just one speech one video .
     
  9. RP12

    RP12 Well-Known Member

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    So he should admit to something he isnt? :omg:
     
  10. dujac

    dujac Well-Known Member

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    only if you like fairy tales



    ron paul is the one that does that, president george washington signed into law the legislation chartered the country's first central bank

    the founders didn't say that only gold and silver can be legal tender, but that's what ron paul says

    president madison approved of a $36 million non-backed, paper money issue to help finance the war of 1812

    thomas jefferson issued bills of credit (debt) to finance the purchase of louisiana from france for $15 million


    yep, this is primary reason why benjamin franklin never became a president
     
  11. Badmutha

    Badmutha New Member

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    ......but the Senate, House, State, and Municipal races will not. Which most likely means your either choosing the (R) or the (D)umbass....or not voting.

    And Im betting Ron would share a similar view. Ron says there shouldnt be any disagreement in Washington......as the Constitution laid everything out in black and white. Our political parties and disagreements only demonstrate how far from the Constitution our government has ventured.....

    Well welcome aboard the Freedom train.......
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