Your Government Spies on You and Lies About It: Now What?

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liber...ies-you-and-lies-about-it-now-what?paging=off

 

It's your thread, Dr. Righteous. What course of action do you suggest?

From what I understand, the government is already being sued by the ACLU and other parties over the NSA's fishing expedition.

Secondly, it's pretty clear that there is a gross lack of congressional oversight over the NSA and the FISA courts. What do you suggest be done about that?

 

A better question might be, why are people so surprised by all this. Americans have been spied on since the earliest days of the FBI and probably even before that. Now all of a sudden people care?

 

The government spies and lies ... and you ask now what? Now what nothing! You seem to forget that you live in a closed socialist nation run by a benign dictator. Dictators of absolutely all nations have a duty and responsibility to their people to spy on opposition or suspected opposition elements in the populace, and Dictator-president Obama is no exception.

As a matter of fact, our Obama is much kindler, gentle, generous, gracious and lax about about citizens who oppose him. In any other socialist, dictatorial nation the government would not tolerate such silly, racist nonsense and would deport or hang them.

So be happy that a tolerant Obama is at the helm. Be happy that Obama even allows you to continue to reside in this country.

 

The first thing you do is create a shielded and transparent whistleblower protection act for intelligence personell. At least we can then get a handle on what is going on now, and come up with more specific plans to tie this thing down. Such does not currently exist.

We need to focus on punishing criminal abuse of the constitution by government officials, rather than whistleblowers who disclose it.

Second thing is very simply to implement a thinthread model immediately. Technological hurdles... not human discretion and secret policy with secret courts. To access what the system knows to be local, a specific signed warrant number must be issued.

Next, repeal the patriot act.

Next, repeal the retroactive protection for corporate partners from suit. The buffer of legally compelled, and retroactive immunity cannot continue. There is almost no way to get any accurate records if the companies WERE complicit in providing access to everything, and getting broad "legal" warrants for stubs they already knew they wanted... there would be no records to pull... the record holders have a get out of jail free card.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/12/fisa.senate/
Bush and Cheney shoved this thing forward. Have to call a spade a spade. It was all giftwrapped when Obama got there.

Oh and lets get rid of drones in the US. One was buzzing my house a couple days ago. It was unsettling.

 

It's the scope of the spying that rightly has people concerned. The Founders & Framers drafted the Fourth Amendment specifically to prevent this kind of activity on the part of government.

Writ of assistance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writ_of_assistance

 

And people have been ignoring it for 60 years. Suddenly OMG

 

Since this wasn't going on 60 years ago that would be expected.

 

History would seem to disagree with you

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2006/0...ng-program-was-shut-down-by-congress-in-1975/

 

ive pretty much been aware of this information since i was 12.... so whats all the hype? actually funny story my grandmother accidentally called the secret service. i dont remember exactly what number it was but some guy answered and and he was upset and crap, he was like 'you shouldn't know this number' i personally found it hilarious, but i was little at the time so i found it kinda scary too. i thought they were gonna bust into my grandmother's house lol...

 

You think your grandmother drunk dialing an unlisted secret service number was evidence of a police state?

Weird.

The hype is, that for the last decade our government has assembled a terrible espionage complex in secret, that is collecting pretty much everything... and has lied about it at every opportunity. "Fearing" your government "might" have this sort of science fiction like capability, and knowing it does... and it is worse than originally believed with technical advancements and international interconnectivity. The amount of people who have access is something not really even considered 12 years ago. People are also starting to understand the way our "intelligence community" works. Companies ranging from Booze Allen types to Blackwater/Haliburton with widely rangeing ethics... have access to these tools.

It's kind of a big deal.

 

still why the hype? you got something to hide? i mean seriously who cares!! it not like an operator who works for the government is gonna confront you on why you want to meet up with your girl/boy friend at the park, or something!? and if they are, its not like we could do anything about it...

 

Because some of us still actually respect the constitution and belief the government should as well.

 

I am sure we could solve a lot of crimes if police routinely went house to house and searched their homes. You should write your congressman and see if you can get some movement on that.

Nothing to hide in my house. You got a bong? Some illegally downloaded songs or movies? I don't. I don't need to be a criminal to not appreciate being treated like a serf.

And what if I DO have something dangerous to say? Dangerous ideas? Dangerous information? What if I am successful in a campaign to make congress understand what meta-data is and what it is doing? This administration is silencing folks who tell the truth... charging them with espionage... I have talked about products I have done engineering on which the NSA was interested in. All I described is how our product worked... but if someone decided that I was detailing NSA program specifics... I could actually be a target. Again, our system was passed on... but based on what our system did... and its meta-data hooks... I am probably in the ballpark. Of course part of my job was to explain how this works. I explained this to nerds and lawyers and executives and government folks all the time. It isn't secret... but how could it be interpreted by an administration which goes after journalists with espionage? Dunno.

I guess you expect if you just fluff them, they will leave you alone. This is how holocausts happen, in case you don't know.

 

It's sad so many people do not realize the implications that modern technology has enabled people in powerful positions access to so much information about us. Dictatorship is right around the corner when you gradually reduce wages to wipe out the middle class while the rich get richer. Once this gap is established, it will take a war to end it.

 

Defies credulity that the POTUS does not have access to the portal. He is the CiC. Nobody could deny him access. Who audits a POTUS? The interface for this is all point and click... with a search engine.

Do you trust any president with a tool like that?

 

Most of us here aren't 60+ years old. Kinda' hard to stand up and complain when you weren't born yet.

Your argument applies to a tiny subset of octogenarian citizens that likely don't frequent these boards.

 

I didn't say it happened 60 years ago. I said it started back then, and has never stopped. Republicans, Democrats, they have all taken advantage of the technologies available. For people to be suddenly grinding their chops, and throwing their hands in the air in faux dismay is just hilarious

 

Dude, have you never heard of the ACLU? Amnesty International? The CATO Institute? The myriad of other organizations? They've been fighting government abuses for decades with the support of everyday citizens.

Maybe it is you that just suddenly started taking notice...and maybe that isn't hilarious at all but is instead terribly tragic?

 

Now you turn off the computer and deactivate your phones and any electronics and live your paranoid lives in the woods. Leave the rest of us normal people alone that don't have irrational fears of the government having metadata.

 

Now What? Apply for a job at the NSA, they already have your resume...

 

More like you berry your head in the sand and pretend it's not happening.

 

If everyone or many people would use the words "bomb" and "Pressure Cooker" in a generic phrase in all of this eMails like in their signature line. Something like "I just bought a new Rival Pressure Cooker and the way it cooks food is da bomb" Imagine if 10 to 20 million people added that to their emails. The numbers of eMails flagged due to those millions of transmission containing those 3 words would quickly swamp their system and crash it.

NOTE: I am NOT advocating doing this....just sayin.

 

I would think an appropriate term could be, "enough is enough!!!"

We don't gain rights, we only keep losing them. As might as well try to stem the tide of destruction while we still have like a third of them left.

Other terms to apply to your post could be:

"the straw that broke the camel's back"

"the wake-up call"

"the tipping point"

etc.

 

The only counter is the people namely the Geeks and Black/Gray Hat Hacker sorts to create encryption software, alternative operating systems, other ways to deliver e-mail and yes people tossing away high technology using codes in snail mail and talking in person. In short make spying so complicated and difficult for the government for anything they can't do it.

Say you had fifty operating systems that can go with the main one, with encryption software one of twenty at a given time that zaps e-mails and e-mails people though personal computers in a voluntary network and people used it OR they used snail mail using classic codes and a key that is complex enough to be an issue of manpower. The system would be so complex as to make monitoring a nightmare.

Windows and such could be for general activity that you don't care about.