Your Moral Guide

That isn't about human emotion, That's about God choosing Jacob and his decendents over Esau and his.

(I mean, that is if you really want to know)

 

wtf are you talking about?

None of your post was even slightly relevant to what I posted. lol.

 

And neither did the Christian god. If he did, most people wouldn't be non-Christian.

There's no serious evidence to show that Jesus really existed, and you just have to have faith in the FSM. He lives, just have faith.

Actually, you can measure it to some extent. It's a matter of an electro-chemical response. It's not magic.

Um, you have a habit of posting completely irrelevant responses. I was talking about how there is no way to put one religion over another if all you have is a demand for faith, and you start talking about how love is magic. wtf.

What part of those verses did you not understand? You didn't even read them, based on your reply. Try again.

You are not a supposed god that created everything, therefore, your comparison is invalid. Free will is impossible with or without god, but it's even more ridiculous of an idea when you have someone who knows how everyone will behave based on your particular design. How do you design a person's brain, knowing how this will shape their personality and dictate every decision they make and still claim that people are making choices independent of an outside force? Not possible.

I've had this conversation a thousand times, and every time, the Christian or other theist really has no explanation at all, just as you are lacking here.

 

It is you who has yet to explain how an all powerful all knowing God cannot give us free will. If he is all powerful there must be a way or it is impossible to be all powerful. The only thing you have done is show that you don't think it is possible.

 

It sounds like God is more omniscient than omnipotent.

 

I'm not sure how the weight of proof is on me and not you. And I explained how your reasoning is faulty. Obviously, somethings cannot be done no matter how much power a being has because it defies logic. Are you telling me god can make something so heavy that he can't lift it? By your standard, if he couldn't lift it, then he's not all powerful. If he can't make something heavy enough for him not to lift, then he's not all powerful. This is your reasoning, so let's deal with this nonsense first. Seeing as how you just skip 5 or so things I post because you don't want to deal with it, I see no point in writing out a bunch of long arguments for someone like you.

 

Why does "all powerful" have to include the logically impossible?

 

Because he must have the intellect of the Almighty. If AKR can't work it out in his head it simply is not possible.

 

Ask Montra. He seems to think that if something can't be done, then god isn't all powerful, therefore, all things can be done. He also seems to be using circular reasoning. Free will must exist or god is not all powerful, therefore, god is all powerful, and because he's all powerful, free will must exist. lol

I'm not sure why you're asking ME why it must include the logically impossible since I'm saying the exact opposite.

 

From your vantage point, free will is impossible, even for an all powerful God. Either God makes us like robots to obey him or he forces us to sin.

That is your problem. Either way it in no way proves or disproves that God exists.

The kicker here is that mankind gets bent all out of shape if we perceive our free will has been compromised. That is pretty funny considering that it does not really exist.

 

No, you are saying that in order to be all-powerful, one must be able to do the impossible. For instance, one cannot be all powerful if one cannot create a rock that one cannot lift. All powerful means simply being able to do whatever, without limitation, is possible. If the rock must be larger than the universe, then it could not be created, therefore it is not a limitation on all-powerful to be unable to create such a thing. Also, what does "lift" mean? How does one lift something that has no weight other than it's own gravitational pull? The same with all-knowing. Omniscience is knowing all that can be known. If the future cannot be known, then God, being omniscient, cannot know the future and therefore humans can have free will.

When I challenge Christians, and by no means does this apply to all of them, I ask them how God, who is omnipresent and the creator of the universe, can create something that is not perfect. If He is perfect, then how can he create something that is not perfect? Also, how can there be a place where an omnipresent God is not present, such as hell?

 

Reading the Bible it is plain to see that God can see the future. There are countless examples. One is when Judas betrayed Jesus. Jesus knew and predicted it. Then Jesus told Peter he would deny him three times. And lastly, there are the countless examples of Bible prophesy about the end of days. I submit that God does know our fate, but I also submit that that does not mean we don't have free will.

As for creating something "imperfect", what exactly is "perfect"? How is one to define such a term? Usually the argument is how can a "good" God allow "bad" things to happen? Again, it boils down to God allowing mankind to reject his perfect will. If man did not have this option, there would be no free will. If there is no free will, then God sinned by forcing us to sin. This is in stark contrast Biblically to the perfection we see in one Jesus Christ.