Oh, well, in that case, you should have said. I mean. Why answer political based questions on a political forum, when we can all rely on a postcard someone read in the toilet. If only you had mentioned that before, that would have been case closed, and there would be no need to ask.. Do you agree that it usually takes something big and pivotal for a man that say 'This can no longer be my country'? Do you know what that defining incident was, in relation to the Israeli Jew, Gilad? Do you believe it should be utterly disregarded as to what that moment was? If you do not believe it should be disregarded, why have you disregarded it, even when I told you what it was? Why did you go out of your way, given that I cited more than merely Gilad, to totally eliminate all mention of the fact that I also discussed, Mr Yonotan Shapira?
No, the wiki quote is defining ethnic cleansing not specifically of a land. Your claim was the ethnic cleansing of the land of Israel but yes I can accept the definition of ethnic cleansing. Cherry picking? Continuation from the same source: In short, as Morris puts it, this report "undermines the traditional official Israeli ’explanation’ of a mass flight ordered or ’invited’ by the Arab leadership". Neither, as he points out, "does [the report] uphold the traditional Arab explanation of the exodus - that the Jews, with premeditation and in a centralised fashion, had systematically waged a campaign aimed at the wholesale expulsion of the native Palestinian population." True the author of your article is of a different mind but Morris doesn't believe his findings are in agreement with your opinion and he exonerates Ben Gurion! Now another example from the other side of the fence for your consideration. Were the Polish postwar survivors of the Holocaust ethnically cleansed from the land of Poland when 50,000 plus fled their homes for Palestine? Where would you have them go but Palestine? Well you may consider a 55% majority as barely one but maybe that depends on whether its a Muslim majority? Brunei has a much slimmer majority of under 52% but is still officially a Muslim country though not a democracy of course. That aside it doesn't take into account further Jewish immigration does it? The consequence of war is often that refugees cannot return for a number of reasons not least if they are on the losing side. Have you any idea of the number of refugees around the world unable to return to their homeland at that time? Yet Morris exonerates Ben Gurion.
I cannot believe you are continuing to spread this lie! You know full well that this is a halftruth. The editor said he decided not to accept the offer because they weren't funny AND some readers would be offended. Again an editorial decision to publish something depends on a number of factors not just on whether or not the readers may be offended. Obviously a caricature drawing sent unsolicited for publication stands much less chance of being published than solicited drawings! According to you newspapers would have to publish pretty much everything anyone ever sent to them if they wanted to avoid being called racists or biased or whatever! Its partly thanks to people like you spreading this extremist propaganda that some Muslims get radicalised that we risk ending up with an Algeria type terror attack in my country. Now is that racism against Danes?
Yes, I conceded that to Gilos. Continuation from the same source: and Also, further below the page Finklestien demonstrates Morris' contradictory viewpoints regarding Plan D and Ben-Gurion. Well the Zionist leaders certainly thought so, considering they found it necessary to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians.
Nope, it doesn't mention all Arabs nor the proposed Jewish state. In fact this is reportedly from july 1948 when Israel had already been founded and at war!
First of all they came for the Muslims. And I did not speak out for I am not a Muslim. Then they came for the whistleblowers, and I did not speak out, as I am not whistle blower. Then they came for the writers of truth, and speakers of truth. And I did not speak out, as I am half truther, and was too worried fussing around with silly terminology. Then they came for the anti semites. Only by this time that was everyone that ever spoke against them. I did not speak out, as I was too politically correct and wanted to avoid that label at any cost. But they still came for me anyway. And there was no one left to speak out. There. Pinned on my wall called reality.
Goomba, acknowledge that Morris concluded from his findings that there wasn't the ethnic cleansing you claim and that he exonerates Ben Gurion. Your argument is circular: that the leaders carried out a policy of ethnic cleansing because they thought a 55% majority barely a majority and then that they must have found it so because they found it necessary to carry out the ethnic cleansing of the land!
Morris himself acknowledges hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were expelled by Israel, and his contradictory tone has been dealt with by Finklestein as said above. My argument is that the leaders carried out a policy of ethnic cleansing because they thought 55% to be barely a majority.
Apart from what Morris first said and his later (under pressure ) shameless PARTIAL flip-flop Listen to a Jewish historian with integrity.; [video=youtube;buhpHTGAlTE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buhpHTGAlTE[/video]
Illan Pappe confirm the historical fact that : The idea was to uproot as many Palestinians as possible. From March 1948 until the end of that year the plan was implemented despite the attempt by some Arab states to oppose it, which failed. Some 750,000 Palestinians were expelled, 531 villages were destroyed and 11 urban neighbourhoods demolished. Half of Palestine's population was uprooted and half of its villages destroyed. The state of Israel was established in over 80 percent of Palestine, turning Palestinian villages into Jewish settlements and recreation parks, but allowing a small number of Palestinian to remain citizens in it. read more in link in my previous post
that israel is causing genocide and the globe is observing it? IF....................... One minute you are asking for 'proof' on matters (above) the next you justify your atrocities with an IF, Sick, just sick it didnt happen, so no matter how you paint your rant and whine, you are living (posting) on a lie! any ambiguity about that? - - - Updated - - - that israel is causing genocide and the globe is observing it? IF....................... One minute you are asking for 'proof' on matters (above) the next you justify your atrocities with an IF, Sick, just sick it didnt happen, so no matter how you paint your rant and whine, you are living (posting) on a lie! any ambiguity about that? - - - Updated - - - that israel is causing genocide and the globe is observing it? IF....................... One minute you are asking for 'proof' on matters (above) the next you justify your atrocities with an IF, Sick, just sick it didnt happen, so no matter how you paint your rant and whine, you are living (posting) on a lie! any ambiguity about that? - - - Updated - - - that israel is causing genocide and the globe is observing it? IF....................... One minute you are asking for 'proof' on matters (above) the next you justify your atrocities with an IF, Sick, just sick it didnt happen, so no matter how you paint your rant and whine, you are living (posting) on a lie! any ambiguity about that?
nothing will assist the palestinians except the truth. Heck, israel is antisemitic to the semitic people of palestine. who is against a language (semitic)? That is what makes the label and usage so rediculous. There actually is no 'antisemitism' as far as being against a people, that is really as bad or even close to what is actually happening to the semitic people of palestine As for hating an embodiment of people because of their beliefs, culture or what ever, that has been occuring to palestinians, just for living in the lands of their birth. Israel is more antisemitic than any group of people that I know of. They actually teach their children that they are better than others, by 'god'. nothing more racist than that! Nothing to do with palestine. No arabs countries or people or muslim or islamaphobist...................... not a fricken item in the world, gives the bigots of israel the right to oppression of palestine, Not a F'cking thing!!!!! tel megiddo means 'the hill'. ie.... the mount. it is the single site on this EARTH, that the zionist MUST have to build some STUPID temple for me to show up. the war over that mount is armegeddon. it is what the word was created for. So now one stupid invokes another to be stupid???? That is like a martyr wanting to kill himself, because others died for the same cause. ie.... the zionist bigots make for a fine example..... what people? who's people? I am a so cal beach bum that hates the bigots of israel for being prejudice pigs to palestinians. i hate the oppression of palestinians based on the beliefs of religious punks dont think, that i would have been there, watched it all and not doing anything about it. I would either be the david of goliath or dead trying! f'ck israel: which one is that classified as?
Just the opposite is REALITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who came first the Chicken or the Egg? Some Arab detractors of Israel want you to believe that the Arab Towns came first and were bulldozed to accommodate Jewish towns. Nothing is further than the truth Biblical Phaenos = Arab Musmeih Biblical Batanea = Arab Bathanyeh Biblical Bozrah = Arab Bushrah Biblical Arbela = Arab Irbid Biblical Abila = Arab Abil Biblical Beth-shean = Arab Beisan Biblical Ein-Ganim = Arab Jenin Biblical Yabneh = Arab Yebnah Biblical Shiloh = Arab Seilun Biblical Shechem = Arab Nablus Biblical Heb. Shomron Lat. Samaria/Sebaste = Arab Sebustiyeh Biblical Gerasa = Arab Jerash Biblical Ramoth-Gilead = Arab Es-Salt Biblical Rabbath-Ammon = Arab Amman Biblical Heshbon = Arab Hesbon Biblical Shihon = Arab Shihan Biblical Kir-Moab = Arab Kerah Biblical Rabbath-Moab = Arab Rabba Biblical Masada = Arab Sebbeh Biblical Eingedi = Arab Ain Jiddy Biblical Bethlehem = Arab Beit Lahm Biblical Hebron = Arab El-Kahalil Biblical Eleutheropolis = Arab Beit Jibrin Biblical Ashdod = Arab Esdud Biblical Ashkelon = Arab Askulan Biblical Gaza = Arab Ghuzzeh Biblical Beer Sheba = Arab Bir es Seba Biblical Thamara = Arab Kurnub Biblical Elusa = Arab Khulasa Biblical Jerusalem = Arab Al Kuds I can go on and on for every Jewish Biblical town, village or encampment with a Jewish name were taken over by Muslim Arabs in the seventh century its name twisted or Arabized and now that the Jews have returned home The Arab propagandists on this board claim that the Jews have bulldozed their Arab villages and constructed Jewish ones instead The slight difference is that the Jews have not disappeared i.e. the Incas and the Mayas, the Romans and the Pharaohs the Jews are alive and well and are reclaiming their own Patrimony.
The worse of them must be so empty inside. Imagine reducing your sum values to death, lies, cheating, and the love of gold.
Interesting. You do realize that most people, including most Israelis and most politicians of all stripes - haven't a clue that this is what is really going on? The Arabs and Muslims have been engaged in a Great Sectarian Civil War for the last hundred years where millions of Arabs and Muslims have been slaughtered and subjugated by other Arab and Muslims. It is all part of a dance of Death where one faction; sect; family; tribe; or clan, wants to dominate all of the others. All attacks against Israel or "the West" - the "Far Enemy," are simply street cred for one faction to gain support in killing the members of other factions. What is most astonishing is that as this mass slaughter becomes endemic and newsworthy every day, no one still apparently recognizes that this is what has been going on for over 100 years.
@ Bish, good post, and spot on with the end part. As a rule of thumb, beware the so called 'anti Zionist/pro Palestinian' who, (and of course I speak about no one here), does any of these things.. 1) Avoids all and any pointed questions asked, even if relevant, fair, and to the point. 2) Curiously starts to slander everyone an 'anti semite', just like a Zionist would. 3) Slanders other Jews as anti semite, just as a Zionist would. 4) Seems to spend more time doing 1-2-3 and making the usual sort of emotional arguements for Jews...just as a Zionist would. 5) Uses the Stormfront mention, to discredit someone, even if that person is not connected to them, at all. 6) Totally ignores any mention of the Israeli AF officer that said, on record 'What we are doing is commiting crimes against humanity'. 7) Ignores any mention or evidence presented about infiltration in the BDS and various Palestinian groups. Invents family members, or personal anecdotes, to develop an emotional point, with a view to appealing to emotion, to sway opinion their way. If such a person present themselves to you, anywhere, at any time...they are NOT an anti Zionist. Doesn't matter what little routine of pretending they go through, if you can tick them on at least 6 of those boxes, they are not anti Zionist, nor are they pro Palestinian,or anything else.
I had long and hard "battles" with a person that, according to the "purity" laws above, is not a real pro-palestinian, and I must say that its much more difficult to argue with a man that uses real facts rather than conspirecy theories, and uses logic and common sense rather than pure hate that blocks reason. A certain member who's name starts with an "A" is really really really not a zionist....he is just not a hater.
Well as it is obviously your are slyly discussing me I shall answer. You are lucky to get an answer. I am reading few posts. Well I wouldn't know the input and could not speak on this because I ignored all your flaming posts to me. I also have a live to live and an not online all day as you are, Political Forum is not my life. Real Life is. Well that is just a lie. In fact I suspect you are the only person I have said that too. Do you have delusions of being everyone - would not surprise me. I have pointed out to you several situations where you were being obviously classically antisemitic but the situation moved on to you trying to get me to believe your reasons for your antisemitism which soon became apparent were not your own ideas at all but those of atzmon a person criticized by the Pro Palestinians, activists in BDS and so on. He also was an absolute gift to the zionists, making real their propaganda that antizionism and antisemitism are the same thing. He, who you support so much that you wrote me longer and longer posts on them is antisemetic Lets have a look end of Atzmon http://jfjfp.com/?p=28744 Here we can see Atzmon not only treating all Jews as if they were identical but attributing to them negative characteristics, which is classical racism, and even coming near to suggesting they were deserving of it. Rather than try to flee pogroms, he is suggesting they should have been looking at the hateful essence which a Jew possess which it would appear he believes, cannot stop the most sane person harming them. Talk about blaming the victim..... Most at this time they were mainly trying to emigrate to the West, the US first and then Western Europe. Many of these Jews who entered the US could not even write so some Borg of people, I do not think. They came from many different backgrounds and no great communication. The British Government, had changed her immigration policies to allow more Jews in prior to WW2, but British Jews asked them to stop allowing so many in as they were finding their different cultural behaviors difficult to deal with. There was no one Jewish culture, not then and not now as Atzmon claims. The only people who have been trying to create the illusion of such has been the Zionist. Aztmon takes his own Zionist conditioning and tries again to provide a racist view of Jews in a similar way to Islamophobes to do to Muslims.
PART 2 No, nothing of the sort. It comes from previous study and teaching of racism. I have already supplied you with an article done by Antisemitic Expert, Anthony Lerman where he very clearly makes the difference including the fact that 'new antisemitism' is not antisemitism but Classical antisemitism remains so. I am not going to bother reading and picking appropriate bits myself again so you can either look for the previous post or spend some time reading the lot. http://antonylerman.com/ You allow yourself to indulge in antisemitism because you believe Atzmon has given you permission saying there is no antisemitism but there is and it is exactly the same as it always was. It differs very little from other forms of racism except due to it's history, it has several distinct caricatures and canards which are readily seen as such. Following your mentor, you have chosen to believe there is no antisemitism – that gives you a clear brush to act in an antisemitic way but it does not associate you with the Pro Palestinian cause but more to David Duke and friends. You are lucky this site has no policy on racism to my knowledge. I am going to say this again because it is so important http://jfjfp.com/?p=28744 Racism is not an activity you can claim to have towards just some specific group. It is a state of mind. You are just racist or not. It is the same lazy, hateful thinking which is involved in all racism which includes antisemitism, Here was the Palestinian response to Atzmon http://electronicintifada.net/blogs...sts-disavow-racism-anti-semitism-gilad-atzmon The above is signed among others by Haidar Eid of Gaza. and as I have written previously goes completely against solving the Palestinian situation as it's focus is not on that but on the inhumanity of Jews – including all those involved in the BDS and actively working for the Palestinians and indeed even antizionitst Jews, I have seen a lot of material in this site which I first saw there. I have even seen you showing support for David Duke on this very site and the other day when I had a few minutes I decided to have a look at one of the articles you put in, all those great articles people say are not seen anywhere else. My search immediately brought me here http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t412728/#post4505985 though their link does not work. Here is the correct one http://www.jewishquarterly.org/issuearchive/articled325.html?articleid=38 It may be a coincidence but they are growing I don't believe you are a genuine Palestinian supporter and I would lay bets you have spent quite some time at Stormfront, and not like me for amusement and information. I went originally to find out what they thought of the EDL. At that time, like yourself they had nothing but angst towards them. They didn't even like people to do posts on them. Gradually more people whose primary hatred was Muslims appeared and eventually the EDL became gradually acceptable. They are after all WN but to the strongest WN antisemitie, the EDL could never be supported because of it's claimed support for Israel. How could you support the Palestinian's when only a day or two I saw you reply to Moon's 'zionists go home' that you were wanting rid of the Jews already living in Britain without wanting any more coming here. Your prime interest is your aversion to Jews. You know perfectly well where they would go Jack, the Palestine West Bank and give Zionists everything they have always wanted – an opportunity to take more land because of antisemitism. Zionism was born on antisemitism and Jews needing a safe place to live along with colonialism. Your real beliefs, I would say, do not allow for a Palestinian State or a One State solution. Thankfully most of the people involved or active in working for a Just resolution to Palestine do not share your position. This is getting completely ridiculous. First I do not spend all my time on this forum. Secondly I do not read all posts. Third rate attack. Ditto to my previous reply Now your lying. I was with my daughter yesterday as she took me to hospital. If I had a desire to appeal to emotions I would have mentioned the three beautiful grand children she has provided me with. My daughter was brought up by me. She does not now and never has had a racist bone in her body. Now you Jack what about your upbringing. I seem to remember once when you were slamming the EDL you claimed to have come from some football casual gang often known for their antisemitism.
Alexa. That was a mess, sorry, I cannot read it. All the quotes etc are mixed up, but it doesn't seem to address the elections, what made Gilad Atmon reject his Israeli status, or much of anything else. When you wish to speak about that, or even the infiltration of the BDS movement, and the implications of that, let me know.
A crafty devious person of a certain persuasion. (wink) tata - the rest of yr post is just a load Beeblical Bull Go ask Moshe . ...
Breaking news, Marlowe..they are murdering people..yet again.. 'Two killed, five injured in Israeli airstrike on Syria’s research center' Two site workers have been killed and five others wounded in an Israeli airstrike on a military research center in Jamraya, northwest of the capital Damascus, the Syrian military says. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/01/30/286445/israeli-airstrike-kills-2-in-syria/ - - - Updated - - - Breaking news, Marlowe..they are murdering people..yet again.. 'Two killed, five injured in Israeli airstrike on Syrias research center' Two site workers have been killed and five others wounded in an Israeli airstrike on a military research center in Jamraya, northwest of the capital Damascus, the Syrian military says. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/01/30/286445/israeli-airstrike-kills-2-in-syria/
