God. Am imaginary friend for adults.

I dont worship anything. But I must not really exist!

Pinches self..

 

I understand your cynicism even though I do believe in God. One of my favorite things to do on the forums is to debate Christians on theology... although I feel that I have an unfair advantage in the debate as I am not confined by the rigid dictates of the Bible. But in the end, I genuinely do not care what others think of God, its really none of my business and I say to each their own. But some people on the forums just can't resist placing their religious views out in the open... speaking in absolutes in reference to their beliefs... in prize fighting that is called leading with the chin.

I get mistaken on the forum for an atheist all the time. Why? Probably because I defend and agree with atheists on many points, that and I do not put my beliefs in God on display in a public forum... I don't like to lead with the chin... I do it to much in other areas already. I think the religions of the world are great... but I am frustrated by many Christians, as they seem to want to force feed the Bible to the rest of us. I have never had anyone from any other religion outside Christianity do this.

 

Once again. From my one sentence statement you have reached all those conclusions? Now that is truely amusing.
I expected better from you.

 

Do you expect better of yourself than the nonsense I responded to?

 

That's funny because you don't hear about to many Americans being tortured here for not believing. I guess all you have on the topic matter is pointless hyperbole.

 

Speaking out the Truth is the essence of Christianity.

All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to say nothing.
But people forget that all things which encourage amoral behavior are beingh promoited all the time in every way, including the media, TV< movies, and nudity in fashions, open promotion of Homosexual activities, and the general acceotance of abortion and free condomsn which condon and imply pre-marital sex is normal safe and recreational behaviors.

The Christian criticism of these things is small by comparison.
These other sources were once called religions, like Eros and Istar worship, etc.

 

No, no...

This is dead wrong.
When the whole world perceived that the Earth was the center of the Universe they were dead wrong.

It made no difference since the Truth depends ONLY upon its direct correspondence with what is the facts of the matter.
Our entire modern science hinges upon this difference between the ancient reasoning of Plato and Aristotle.

What a person thinks is true is called his perception of reality.
That can be dead wrong, and usually is.

 

That should be "and usually are"

Did you notice that you are usually always wrong?

 

LOL, two can play that game - show me where I wrote that you stated that belief.

But let's put this particular discussion into perspective.

You wrote -

Upside-down cake responded with -

You replied -

Assuming, for the purposes of discussion, those moral concepts are virtuous; your initial statement clearly implies that the source of that virtue is religion. Your second statement also clearly implies that altruism (a virtue) did not exist before mankind invented religion.

Which is why I (and others) question those assumptions. We have no way of knowing at what stage of the development from primordial slime to homo sapiens sapiens, mankind developed the concept of supernatural beings who required worship. So we have no way of knowing whether altruism existed in the various evolutionary creatures which led to modern man. What we do know, is that it is not uncommon in the animal kingdom (which includes mankind) for creatures to sacrifice themselves to save their offspring. I think that may be regarded as altruistic within the general definition of the term.

What may be further established, is the fact that avowed atheists are as capable of altruism as deeply religious people. Perhaps more commendably so, as it is not the fear of a wrathful God which motivates them. It was not for nothing the phrase "As cold as Christian charity ..." was coined.

 

Well thank you for the clarification. I see your point. Altruism is not a virtue IMO. YMMV.

 

Just because religion champions values does not mean it owns them, or it originated from them. That's about as bad as Al Gore saying he invented the internet. Movies, video games, books, and all that do the same thing, and there were religions that have existed before Christianity that have stated basic virtues and principles. (by the way, though people believe Christianity goes back 5 or 6 thousand years BC, it is actually only 33 BC, when Christ was born. Before that, there was no Christianity, but it's ancestor, Hebrew-Judaism. How can a religion preclude it's founder?)

Morals and virtues originate in the person, just the same as "good" and "bad" actions originate in the person. Believing that human virtues come from a God seems counter to the religion itself, as God would have created humans who were utterly without virtue, yet expected to have virtue. And that transgressions done by humans were his fault, as he did not provide them with the virtues needed to avoid it.

 

Interesting that Christians thing using condoms, nudity and homosexuality are things we all accept as 'Amoral'.

I don;t see any of these thing as Amoral.

 

Just for snoot's and giggles why don't you define exactly what truth is according to christianity.

 

People say such things such as "I dont worship anything", but they find they have very strong opinions and firmly entrenched attitudes.

Psychologist say that attitudes are mental states where one has taken a particular position one which will not change and one that they will defend.
I see this as little different than when religious people express their position on issues.

What we need do is dig deeper beneath the surface of our attitude and find the source of those opinions and beliefs that govern over the attitude.

There is I suspect a psychic foundation involved there which plays a dominate role in the formation of this religious-like attitude in us.
What I say here is supported by Personality Tests such as the Myers/Briggs Type Test used by eHarmony to match up people with attitudes that are compatible.

 

According to Christianity, Truth is our savior, the messiah.

Called Christ in 32AD, when the personification of the Truth about Judaism was crucified symbolucally, (much the same way Rev Martin Luther King sacrificed his safety and life for the same kind of Truth about Civil Rights), these matters of Truth that bring change and advancement to mankind save us from ourselves.



22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

The thing about us as a species is that our attitudes are difficult to change until some one dies because they were dead right, and then we see we were wrong, with the blood on our hands.

 

So you think that Christ, which I should remind you is only a title was an actual person? And you believe that because he lived there is truth in that? Boy have you been duped.

 

?

Huh??
I said "personified."

1) I said Christ was the title used to personify the spirit of Truth in regard to how it was expressed openly in a cuture where Truth will cost oe's physical life, but his spiritual life will rise again and reign over the liars.

2) I even gave the illustration of this spirit of The Christ, the truth, indwelling the Rev Martin Luther King who spoke out about Civil Rights when even John Kennedy and Jackie Kennedy thought of him as a trouble maker.




John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name, (i.e.; Truth):

 

Is your truth the truth or just your perception of the truth?

So how do you apply this to Christianity? Prove to me that Jesus is God without quoting the Bible. Is it not a Christian "truth" that Jesus is God? As for philosophy, there are many different branches to the tree of philosophy, and many contradict. Lets take another truth... murder is wrong. I bet we agree on that. But how about abortion, is that murder? Capitol punishment? Assisted suicide? In America it is murder to kill a gay person for being gay. In Iran it is called justice. Just so there is no confusion I support the gay movement and think the Iranian laws are barbaric.

Much truth is universally agreed to like 2+2=4 but when you delve into philosophy and theology points of truth can become subjective.

We will have to disagree but I do respect and appreciate your views.

 

I use your own words to respond.

 

Anthropomorphism such as talking jackasses and snakes. Gotcha.

 

1) You are just dead wrong.

The Truth existed long before any man had evolved.
So, my perceptions are irrelevant to the matter of just what is true or what trutyh may be.

2) What Christian OUGHT tell you may be diferent from what some may tell you.
But most will recognize the scripture that says "Before Abraham, I, the Truth, was."

This the Christ said, not Jesus the son-of-man.
He meant this:


John1:1
In the beginning was the Word, (i.e.; Truth: [John 14:6]), and the Word, (Truth, itself), was (synonymous) with God, (i.e.; Reality), and the Word, (Truth: [John 14:6]), was (indistinguishable from Reality), God, (the almighty for all men).

2 "He," (Truth, the symbolic Word to come: [Jud 1:3]) was with God, (i.e.; the ever unfolding Reality), in the beginning, (that is, the initial unfolding of material Reality in what was the actiual physical Creation).

Jn 1:3 ALL (real) THINGS, (phenomenally, i.e.; mentally), came into existence, (for man), through him, (i.e.; this concept of Truth), and apart from him, (this ideal of Truth), not even ONE (real) thing came into (actual) existence (for men).


Truth is merely that which corresponds directly with the Facts that define Reality.

 

Yes, you did quote je where I stated that what anyone might say is true is merely his pereception of Truth, which may or may not be correct.
Furthermore, Truth is independent from whether what one says is true or not true.

The only thing that determines what is true is that in fact, that truth corresponds directly with the facts of Reality.




Illustration:

God is all there is, ie; Reality itself... the whole external existence beyond our mind is the almighty God to which all life must bow:



...Truth inside our head, is the Holy Spirit, the image of God, almighty Reality, and is present inside our mind when our thinking correctly images the TRUTH, or the picture of Reality inside our mind.

 

Well you got this part right. It's all in your head.

 

Truth can get inside our head because God created man capable to image Him, i.e.; Reality:


Gen. 1:26 And God, (The Universal Force, the Macrocosmos), said, "Let us, (the Natural Laws), make man, (a conscious mind, to model us, the unfolding Universe, as a Microcosmos of his mind), in (order that) our image (might be modeled after our own orderly organization): and let him (that conscious mind,) have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."


Gen. 1:27 So God (The Universal Force) created man (an abstract mind in his own image, enabled to image The Universal Force, abstractly and mathematically), so created God (The Universal Force) him; male and female created he them.