Part 6 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Why would you think that God is pure love and nothing else. (Perhaps you are referring to a God other than the God of Abraham)

Clearly the God of Abraham is capable of punishing. Most OT is about God punishing the Israelits or getting the Israelites to punish others.

This is a jealous, vengeful God who hates. Surely this stems from something other than "pure love".

Do you think the people back then were stupid or something ? They may have not had televisions and IPods but they were very advanced socially.

Hamurrabi's famous law code was in force at least as far back as 1800 BC (many centuries before Moses). Man of the Laws of Moses were in fact very similar to the laws found in Hamurrabi's code.

This code had welfare for widows and the poor. If a farmer had a bad crop year he got an interest free loan for the next year (yes, they had a banking system, courts and so on). There were marriage laws, divorce laws, and all the other laws that one expects in a civilized society.

Your comment betrays a good deal of ignorance of the society at the time.

Lastly, how is commanding the Israelites to go out and slaughter thousands of innocent women, Children, and even the unborn, teaching them about "pure love" ?

What exactly is Jesus doing at the end of days when he sits as Judge at the right hand of the Father ?

Im referring to Matt 25 - Parable of the Sheep and Goats where Jesus is explaining who will get eternal salvation, how they will get eternal salvation, and what happens to those who do not get eternal salvation.

Please read the whole passage but here is the last one.

I do not know which God you are referring to but it is certainly does not have anything to do with the God of the Bible.

 

God is Pure Love because He is a 'total' Creative Power, and so any limits on His 'love' would hinder His creative ability...and frankly we wouldn't be able to exist, nor would the world. At least that's how I see it.

In my post, I said that God in the OT presents himself in a way that people at that time and place could understand. For example, when a natural catastrophe happens we say it's God, or it's God punishing us, but it is not God. Our own sins are causing the earth to vomit. Also at the last judgement, will God be judging us, or will our own conscience be judging us and hindering us from attaining unity with Him?

As for the slaughtering of people in the OT, it doesn't mean that God did it, only that He allowed it so they could be purified the same way the world was purified at the time of Noah, and the way people in places have been purified many times since then. We like to say a natural disaster is an act of God, but it is our sins which disrupt the climate, and the earth, and everything else. God is willing to stop it, but we have to turn to Him and ask to have it stopped, or else we remain in that sinful state of rebellion.

The same is true when people are being slaughtered, especially Christians. It doesn't mean God favors those that do the slaughtering, nor does it mean that God is causing it, only that God is allowing it. We can even say God cannot intervene and stop it unless the people ask to have it stopped...but it must be asked with pure and repentant hearts otherwise their pleas cannot reach God.

 

Scripture specifically states that the reason Joshua is successful in his slaughter of the Canaanites is because God makes it happen. This is God's work, according to scripture, not man's.

 

I think you have nice ideas but they do not really match well with the God of the Bible. You should check out Buddhism.

No offense but you do not seem to know the Bible very well. God did not " only allow" the slaughter of innocents. God commanded the slaughter of innocents. God ordered the killing of all the women and children in certain towns.

 

The way folks have to twist things around in order to believe what they believe.
What book do you go by?
How is a world wide flood considered the earth vomiting? Bible clearly states God sent rain for 40 days and 40 nights. God clearly states for Noah to build an ark. God clearly states he will make it rain.
At least be honest with the book.
BTW - I tend to think the OT God is not the NT God. God of the OT was specifically for the Hebrews.

 

Quote Posted by Akhlut on pg. 15 #143 of Part 3

Can't love something that's not there.
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Are you blind? Can't you see things around you?

First of all, the complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible.

But I guess your response to this is that we got lucky, it was just an accident that everything just happened to fall into the right place...yeah right!...lol

Secondly, we know the universe had a start...so what caused this start? The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter. Scripture tells us at the very beginning of the Holy Bible, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1 NLT

Thirdly, the universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it? How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?

Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."

Fourthly, the DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior. Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.

Fifthly, we know God exists because He pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to Him. The issue of people believing in God greatly bothers many atheists.

But what is it about atheists that they would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that they don't believe even exists? What causes an atheist to do that? Tell me my atheists friends, what compels you all to do that? Could it be that God is pursuing you to come to Him.

Lastly, unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing Himself to us.
Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God.

Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at Him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in Him, believed in the Father.

In conclusion, saying you can't love something that's not there is just a poor excuse...clearly a denial when there adequate evidences around us as proof to the very existence of the Almighty Creator God. And so it is very easy to love and worship Him for His divine creation!

 

Please don't make this argument, because it is weak and dismissible. If it is so obvious, you shouldn't have to call people blind. The preponderance of evidence itself should be argument enough.

The Earth varies in distance around the sun all the time, we orbit in an ellipse, not a perfect circle. Our distance from the sun varies from 91 to 94 millions each year. Yes, our distance varies by 3 million miles.

No, the response is that we evolved to fit this planet, not the other way around.

So what? Thousands of religions have claimed to know how the Universe started. The question is can you provide ANY evidence that God created it? We don't care what Genesis claims, we care about the verifiability of the claim.

We don't know. Maybe there isn't a reason.

Evolution explains this incredibly well, actually.

And yet billions of people throughout history weren't pursued. I haven't been.

Nope, I dislike ignorance and that's exactly what faith is. I also argue against conspiracy theorists who have no energy. Does that mean the conspiracy is pursuing me?

There have been thousands of people who have claimed to be God or a god. Jesus wasn't unique. Hell, cult leaders do this all the time. King Il-sung claimed to be God as well. Was he just becaus he said it?

 

Directing Joshua to kill the Canaanites is not God's work, though God does allow it because they are pagans and demon worshippers, and evil is like a virus, if you allow it, it will soon spread and infect everyone. God did protect Joshua, even though he and his men were committing an evil deed.

I know Many Christians feel that God in the OT is not the same God as in the NT because of the way He expresses Himself...yet He is the same God. It's only that God hadn't revealed Himself fully to mankind because we were not ready for it. When God felt the time was ripe, He gave the world a full vision of Himself and what He consisted of. How much greater love can someone have than to sacrifice their only Son?

 

God didn't just allow it, he ordered it. So, how is it not God's work?

What a poor excuse. How was mankind not ready for it? Also, I don't consider being tortured for half a day, being "dead" for three days, then spending an eternity in heaven a sacrifice. That's actually incredibly conceited to call it such. Millions of people have died in much more horrific ways than Jesus did and they didn't get to go to heaven according to your Scripture.

 

Do you really need the verses quoted where God commands Joshua to smash the babies on rocks and take the women as slaves and so on? Are you unfamiliar with these?

 

Seriously? Where does this garbage come from?

 

Do you have kids?
Do you believe in hell as told per revelations?

In another thread you claimed jesus is the creator.
Now you're claiming he's the son. Which is it?
The son of God is the creator of the universe or is God the creator of the universe? And yes, I've heard about the trinity.

- - - Updated - - -

Folks only take from a story only what they want to take from it. They are totally blind to what is actually written. Or have no clue about what is written.

 

Quote Posted by dairyair on pg. 15 #146 of Part 3

Kinda makes one wonder why he ordered the slaughter of canaanites, and all the other ites of the time if he was just going to bring them to heaven anyways.
And why he flooded the whole world if he was just gonna take them home anyways.
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For God to be fair, He did not condemn anyone to hell who lived prior to our Lord Savior Jesus Christ but it didn't mean that those people who did live prior to Jesus Christ had free reign to live a wicked immoral life.

The inhabitants of Canaan were neither ignorant nor innocent victims of an angry God. They had been committing terrible sin knowing full well of the true and living God. Because they rejected Him and His forgiveness God harshly judged them. That goes for the people who lived just prior to the Great Flood too.

 

So, God judged them based on their merits and not their faith in a proxy for God? Then, you're saying Jesus wasn't necessary.

 

How the heck did you invent this theology? Where do you think it comes from?
When it is said that He will judge the living and the dead, did you think that was a joke?
Wow, dude.
Seriously silly stuff.

 

I had hoped this thread died. All the answers been completely moronic.

 

Why would a rational creature sacrifice his "son" to appease himself? If God had wanted to sacrifice someone he should have just killed himself because of the lousy job he had been doing.

 

Quote Posted by AlphaOmega on pg. 15 #148 of Part 3

LOL putting me in hell for eternity simply for not worshipping is love? Thats a perverted and false love. If you have to force someone to love you then your not worthy of that love in the first place. A true loving god would love all regardless of their ideology even the people who deny him. Especially if the God was the one who made skepticism part of the human mind in the first place.
Thats called a fear tactic. Invented by a man to control another man. As you can see in this forum some people still try to use that fear tactic. The only people on this forum going to hell are the ones who try to use fear to force others to submit to their ideology.
A true god would see that as the sin not the other way around.
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God has made Himself perfectly clear, Scripture tells us, "For God loved the world so much that He gave His one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent His son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through Him.

There is no judgment against anyone who believes in Him. But anyone who does not believe in Him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: God's light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants." John 3:16-21 NLT

 

Quote Posted by Abu Sina on pg. 15 #150 of Part 3

If Jesus is believed to be God then who looked after the world between Friday afternoon and Sunday when he was supposed to have risen from the dead?
If he was dead and he was God then who rose him from the dead if God was dead?
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God exists in three persons, the Trinity. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit make up the Trinity. So there is one God existing in three persons.

These persons are all distinct. They are all equally God. The divine nature cannot be subdivided, God’s nature is infinite.

Though there is one God in three persons, the person of Jesus Christ has two natures. He has the divine nature and the human nature. He was born and took on human flesh. He suffered physically and emotionally.

So Jesus could operate out of His human nature or His divine nature. As a man He ate, as God He performed miracles.
So, while Christ's body was dead, He remained alive since God cannot die. This should not be a great surprise, since human souls remain while the body decays.

Jesus' human soul remained in the way that all human souls do, while His divine substance remained unchanged.
So even while His human body lay dead, it was possible for Jesus, through His divine nature to display His power by ressurecting Himself.

We see in Scripture that Jesus, speaking of His body said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:19 KJV
So certainly it was God who raised His body and Jesus is God. But Scripture also teaches that the Father raised Him. (See Eph. 1:17-20 and Gal. 1:1) Even the Holy Spirit is said to have raised Him. (See Romans 8:11)

So, the act of raising Jesus from the dead was not the operation of one person within the Trinity, but was a cooperative act done by the power of the divine substance. The fact that the Holy Bible teaches that God raised Jesus from the dead, and that Jesus raised Himself is yet another testament to Christ's divinity.

 

Stop this madness. If God has made himself perfectly clear then why do the majority of Christians (Orthodox and Catholic) not believe what you are saying ?

Sola Fide was not a Church doctrine until Luther. Sola Fide (salvation by faith alone) one of the main reasons for the split between Catholic/Orthodox and Protestantism.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

Second: Your claim about Bible inerrancy is not only not accepted by Catholics and Orthodox, the majority of Protestant denominations do not accept it either.

The only group (I hesitate to even call them a denomination as they garner so little respect from the rest of Christianity) is the evangelicals.

There are good reasons why the majority of Christianity does not believe in Sola Fide and even better reasons why the vast and overwhelming majority of Christianity does not believe in Bible inerrancy.

Perhaps understanding the arguments from the other side what you need to be doing instead of pretending to speak for God.

Here is a 4 hour documentary on the rise of Christianity. It is very well done and includes some of the most recent historical and archaeological information.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/watch/

This is a great place to start and hopefully will give a better appreciation of the subject matter.

 

To Giftdone.
Exactly, he has no clue, let the thread die.

 

Stop blaming God, He didn't make you the way you are, you did.

 

What % of the world is christian?
What % of the world will be in eternal paradise by your standards?

 

The Holy Trinity is not a man made concept, it is God's existance in three persons as defined by the Fathers/Saints of the Church. Big difference!

Were you there? How do you know baptism even existed and that it was not a later innovation? Did someone write it down in English, and you 'miraculously' found the paper?

 

Whoever chooses to be with God will enter His Kingdom. Whoever chooses not to be with Him, will not be.