Russian Flags Raised In Ukraine's South- How Far Will This Go?

Could you give some examples of Lavrov's logic?

If that's the only reason then you do realize that he may be simply faking it, right? Even thought you may be taking Orthodox Christianity very seriously he may be using it just to persuade religious people that he is. The same thing the US presidents usually do in order to persuade most religious Americans to vote for them.

 

how come they don't have the choice to remain an autonomous part of Ukraine?

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so the people of Crimea deserve the right to choose, but not Chechnya?

interesting.

 

How would letting the Chechens have a separate state restore the Ottoman Empire? Please explain that in as much detail as you can. I am very interested in the thought processes behind this.

 

Chechnya had independence from 1996 - 1999. They were going to become officially independent in 2000.

Instead of focusing on how to better their territory, the Chechens turned independence into a mini Afghanistan with a vision of jihad and caliphate. Thousands of kidnappings happened in regions outside of Chechnya by Chechens. Chechnya became a terrorist magnet. Oh and how can you forget the invasion of Dagestan by Chechen jihadis? The people of Dagestan were infuriated and rose up against the jihadis. Russia had no choice but to go back in.

Chechnya today has de-facto independence with exception of foreign policy.

If Chechnya and Chechens could guarantee they wouldn't engage in terrorism, jihad and extremist activities, Russia would let them go a long time ago. It is such a tiny and insignificant territory. The only reason why Russia is there is to prevent another jihadi uprising.

 

she's just expressing her anti-Muslim hysteria.

 

Average salary is 4 times higher in Russia than in Ukraine
Average pension is 3 times higher in Russia than in Ukraine

Ukraine has 100,000 $ in it's treasury and a $50b debt

Russia has $200b in the treasury and $0 debt..

should I keep going?

 

Please give me some more information because our media spins things and only gives bits and parts of the truth. I read in Ria Navosti that there would be twenty one observers from foreign nations. This of course is not mentioned in our press, do you know anything about it?

 

SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (AP) — Fireworks exploded and Russian flags fluttered above jubilant crowds Sunday after residents in Crimea voted overwhelmingly to secede from Ukraine and join Russia. The United States and Europe condemned the ballot as illegal and destabilizing and were expected to slap sanctions against Russia for it.



Ukraine's new government in Kiev called the referendum a "circus" directed at gunpoint by Moscow — referring to the thousands of Russian troops now in the strategic Black Sea peninsula after seizing it two weeks ago.
Do you see this? Ukraine's new government is already spreading lies. Where is the gun point?

 

a referendum with tens of thousands of illegal Russian soldiers?

sounds like a referendum by force.

 

It's not hysteria, Erdogon's foreign minister Devotoglu wrote a book called 'Strategic Depth' which states their quest in restoring the Ottoman Empire. Erdogan besides being known as a megalomaniac reminiscent of Adolph Hitler, is not known together with Devotoglu as the new Ottomans for no reason. Devotoglu has been reported to the U.N. quite a few times for arousing the Turkomans in other nations and having them question their borders. Hillary Clinton even told him to stop his trouble making in Iraq.

Besides this, their jets and ships continue to advance further and further into Greek territorial waters, and spies have been caught in restricted areas as well. They are also sending in hundreds of thousand of illegals into Greece, so that the migrant population now is fifteen percent. There is not a day that goes by that someone is not robbed and/or killed by one of these migrants, and this mind you in Athens which was considered the safest city in Europe twenty five years go.

On the island of Chios three years ago sixty forest fires broke out the day the winds began to blow which destroyed its major crop, yet eight miles across the Aegean in Turkey, there was not one fire. This was in addition to one hundred and fifty fires breaking out throughout Greece...on the same day of course. Not all these migrants are migrants, many are paid arsonists and spies. The Greek government knows it is sabotage.

PM Erdogan said that he refuses to accept the Treaty of Lausanne in regard to the Aegean islands, Thrace, Cyprus, etc., etc., even though it was signed by Attaturk, yet at the same time he fully recognizes the lands and city of Izmir which was given to Turkey by the same treaty.

A few days ago an old Turkish tanker full of oil crash into the rocks outside of the major resort of Myconos. This is not the first time they have done this to a major resort right before tourist season. In the meantime they are building up their fleet like mad, which includes landing craft. All of these threats in the Aegean are also threatening to Russia and its access to the Mediterranean, so the situation in that part of the world is very volatile. ..and it's not because of Russia.

 

I can read and understand Russian, so I use sources in Russian.

You can use google translate to read the whole page in English.


http://lenta.ru/news/2014/03/17/crimea/

There were observes from dozens of countries, including members of European Parliament. Of course they were not endorsed by the EU and they just volunteered as private citizens.

 

I'm not sure that yout data are correct, Syrian girl, but it seems you are a thinking person, but in the wrong side.
In my internet searches, I read a text with this title about an ucranian city: low salary but happy.
Comparing the information of brazilian that lives in foreign cities, Moscow is the worst city of the world (among the big cities) and the prices are very high. If the prices are very high, a higher salary doesn't help. And there's the mafia, charging rent from all.
Otherwise, I don't expect sanctions to be effective, sanctions against dictator are ineffective because for dictators the people are nothing, they don't care about their people.
I think united states could destroy russia entirely, it has better weapons, it could use nuclear weapons against the russians. It seems they must accept the russian invasion or destroy russia, even witn nuclear bombs on moscow and other cities ena military instalations.

 

Am I the only one that sees this as a war for markets?
A Leninist Nightmare of a Capitalists' War.
Does anyone really believe the apolitical, living Ukrainian - ala Dr. Zhivago
would be better off under the "management" of The West / E.U. / German Bank loans
vs
The Russian Oligarchs.

Quelle est la difference?
The benefits programs are better under the Russian system.


Moi
Ukraine = Russia
as
Texas =

No
Never again !
​

 

What I see is the frustration of the E.U. and U.S. over a done deal. Crimea is now going to be a part of Russia and the people are jubilant. It's the same frustration that Russia and Serbia had when Nato pulled Kosovo away from Serbia. Oh well, what goes around comes around. We were getting too arrogant anyway.

Anyway when they say it was at the point of a gun, that is laughable. The point of a gun was the one pointed at Yanukovich which forced him to flee from Kiev. What is also laughable is the way the junta leader talks about foreign passports, etc., when many of the protesters in Kiev who pretended to be Ukrainians were really from Poland.

What is not laughable is the deceptions of our government when they present an illegal Junta leader as the official president of Kiev, and a legal referendum in the Crimea as being illegal.

Now who was it that said if something is said often enough people will believe it?

Shakespeare: Lord what fools these mortals be.

Jeannette: When they have eyes and cannot see.

 

Another reason to support the presidential candidacy of Rand Paul, M.D.
He is the only, - HE IS THE ONLY presidential hopeful who "gets it".

Moi
Non Interventionist

No ​

 

I will recognize this referendum when Russia recognizes the independence of Chechnya.

 

I saw an analysis from an Asia Times correspondent whose view was that the prize for the West was Crimea. If so, the referendum burst that bubble in short order.

OK.... so now what will Monday bring?

 

I love him, but am fearful he is too decent and honest a person to be able to fight the deception, propaganda and lies of the Democratic Party. After what I have seen with Syria and now with Ukraine, I don't believe I could vote for anyone else...yet will the Republicans even let him run?

 

so when will Russia let the many republics of the Russian federation, vote for independence?

they are such hypocrite pigs.

 

Moi621 - This is the most fantastic, truthful and informative article that I have ever read about what's going on in Ukraine. It's a must read for everyone. I only wish there was a way it could reach more Americans.

http://www.atimes.com//atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-120314.html

 

I love how this article makes believe Russians suddenly care about Jews.

lol!!!

 

Probably after Washington finally gets around to letting the Serbian's vote after the former stole Kosovo from the latter.

 

The pro-ethnic cleansing propaganda is strong with this one, Kosovo was never in the history of the planet a territory of Serbia, it always had an Albanian majority, and during the Yugoslav Wars the Serbs perpetrated systematic ethnic cleansing against the Albanians including (but not limited to) mass murder, mass rape, rampant destruction of property, and genocide.




Kosovo remained Ottoman territory until it was conquered by Serbian forces in 1912. Serbs would say "liberated"; but even their own estimates put the Orthodox Serb population at less than 25%. The majority population was Albanian, and did not welcome Serb rule, so "conquered" seems the right word.

But legally, Kosovo was not incorporated into the Serbian kingdom in 1912; it remained occupied territory until some time after 1918. Then, finally, it was incorporated, not into a Serbian state, but into a Yugoslav one. And with one big interruption (the second world war) it remained part of some sort of Yugoslav state until June 2006.[4]


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/feb/26/kosovo.serbia


Notable massacres against Croats:


Baćin massacre
Bruška massacre
Dalj massacre (led by notorious war criminal Arkan)
Erdut massacre
Lovas massacre
Saborsko massacre
Široka Kula massacre
Škabrnja massacre
Voćin massacre
Vukovar massacre

There were also prison camps, where Croatian prisoners of war and civilians were kept by Serbian authorities.

Begejci camp (Logor Begejci) in Begejci near Zrenjanin, Serbia.
Sremska Mitrovica camp in Sremska Mitrovica, Serbia.
Stajićevo camp (Logor Stajićevo) in Stajićevo near Zrenjanin.


Against Bosniaks/Albanians during the Bosnian War:


Ahatovići massacre
Bijeljina massacre
Doboj massacre
Foča massacres
Korićani Cliffs massacre
Prijedor massacre
Višegrad massacre
Tuzla Massacre
Paklenik Massacre
Markale massacres
Srebrenica massacre
Srebrenica Children Massacre
Zvornik massacre
Siege of Bihać
Siege of Goražde
Siege of Sarajevo

There were several concentration and prison camps in Bosnia, run by Serbs:

Omarska camp
Keraterm camp
Manjača camp
Trnopolje camp
Uzamnica camp
Vilina Vlas

The International Court of Justice confirmed the ICTY judgment that the Srebrenica massacre was genocide:

The Court concludes that the acts committed at Srebrenica falling within Article II (a) and (b) of the Convention were committed with the specific intent to destroy in part the group of the Muslims of Bosnia and Herzegovina as such; and accordingly that these were acts of genocide, committed by members of the VRS in and around Srebrenica from about 13 July 1995.[39]


Against Albanians during Kosovo war:


Suva Reka massacre — 48 Albanian civilians victims, among them many children.[42]
Račak massacre — 45 Albanians villagers were murdered by Serb forces.[43]
Podujevo massacre - 19 Albanian civilians, including women, children and the elderly, killed by Serb paramilitary.[44]
Massacre at Velika Kruša — according to the Court, Serbian special police units murdered 42 persons.[45] There is also allegetions of females mass raped.[46]
Izbica massacre — Serbian forces killed about 120 Albanian civilians.[47]
Drenica massacre — there were 29 identified corpses of massacre, committed by Serbian law enforcement forces.[48]
Gornje Obrinje massacre - 18 bodies were found,[49] but more people slaughtered.[50]
Cuska massacre — 41 known victims.[51]
Bela Crkva massacre — 62 known victims[52]
Orahovac massacre — from 50 to more than 200 ethnic Albanian civilians victims[53]
Dubrava Prison massacre — Serbian prison guards killed more than 70 Albanian prisoners.[54]
Ćuška massacre near Peć on May 14, 1999 attributed to the Šakali

Goran Stoparić, ex-member of Special Anti-terrorist Unit (SAJ), speculating about motives behind Podujevo massacre, said:

"In my opinion, the only motive was the fact that the victims were Albanians, and perhaps because of some hidden immaturity or sickness of mind on their part. They would probably have killed them had they been Bosnians or Croats. But it is certain that they were killed because they were not Serbs".[55]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_war_crimes_in_the_Yugoslav_Wars#War_crimes

 

Ok. Let's go to Grozny and try to initiate referendum. I think you do not succeed in this. People on the streets do not support you. Doubt?

 

[video=youtube;OOhAAyVfchE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OOhAAyVfchE[/video]

Lvov, Ukraine. 2013.

Schoolchildren waving far-right Neo Nazi symbols and singing that all Russians should be hanged.....

.........Western Media: There's no discrimination against Russians in Ukraine.