Part 14 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Mitt has not been answering much lately. His posts have consisted of cheerleading for WR or ad hom demonization of those who say things he does not like.

 

You are most certainly wrong. No one but Mitt believes you and your worldwide cannibalism. Your justification of killing innocent babies. Your sheep in wolves clothing viewpoints. You really should pray for yourself if you really want to be on the side of God.

 

Maybe he's realizing he is really being a voice of satan as well. Not knowing scripture well enough and spouting off websites with questionable beliefs.
He does agree with Wanren on world wide cannibalism. Soo?

 

Per his response some days ago, concerning the age of the Universe (note: he didn't say "Earth"...he clearly was talking about God "created the UNIVERSE")....and defending Young Earth Creationism....

I'd really like to know his ballpark estimate for the age of the Universe per his interpretation of the Bible.

I have a feeling...he will suddenly declare one of those "blind spots" where he says "The Bible doesn't clearly say....". But love to be proven wrong on that assumption.

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BTW, I'd love Mitt's answer to my question too...

If he had been a Hebrew during the time of the war with the Amalekites....would he have killed children and babies? Yes or No?

 

Hopefully but I doubt it. I asked him the same question 4 times and never got a response.

He claimed "God created everything that exists" and in a separate post claimed "God did not create Satan"

I asked him to make sense of this contradiction about 4 times. No response.

 

The only blind-spot that could be claimed is that since God created the earth on the first day and the Sun not until the third day, technically the the first 3 "days" could have been a billion years each.

Where a "blind spot" can not be claimed is for the flood. The Bible clearly gives the number of years from Adam to Noah and Noah to Abraham.

We have a bit of a blind spot between Joseph and Moses but this is not really a blind-spot as it only can be a couple of hundred years difference.

Thus from the Bible the flood would have had to have happened no later than 300 years after the birth of Abraham.

Most put Abraham around 1800 BC given details given in the Bible. Give it +/- 200 years or even 300 and say Abraham was born 2100 BC.

That puts the flood at 2400 BC which we know is complete lunacy.

Sargon of Akkad was uniting the city states of Mesopotamia into the worlds first empire around 2350-2400. Where did all these people come from.

Sargon was deified after death (looked upon as a God). What kind of crazy people would do this when Moses (Great Grandfather of all humanity) was still alive.

Every human on the planet would know Noah and the story of their origins while he and 3 sons were alive. Yet we have nothing from any of these peoples. All these peoples have stories of their origins but non mentions this Noah dude who is supposedly still alive.

Noah is still alive when Abraham is born .... Yet, somehow Abrahams father Terah is worshiping the Sumerian Pantheon.

How the frick is this possible ??? Noah, Shem (not sure off top of head about the other two brothers) are still alive. It is only 300 years since the boat hit land.

Every human living has a grandparent who is or was very close in relation to Noah and Shem or the other two brothers and these dudes are still alive.

Why would people living be deifying Sargon, when Noah is still alive and they know him and the story of their creation.

Why is Abrahams father Terah worshiping other Gods. Terah was 70 when Abraham was born which means that the boat made land only 230 years prior to Terah's birth.

Check out Genesis 11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+11

Noah's son Shem has a son 2 years after the flood and lives another 500 years. (he out lives Abraham) The sons name is Arphaxad (2)

Arphaxad (lives 400 years - still alive when Abraham is born 300 years later) has Salah 35 years (37)
Salah ( lives 400 years - ") has Eber 30 years (67)
Eber lives 430 has Peleg 34 years (101)
Peleg lives 209 has Reu 30 years (131)
Reu lives 207 has Serug 32 years (163)
Serug lives 200 has Nahor 30 years (193)
Nahor lives 200 has Terah 29 years (222)
Terah lives 119 has Abraham 70 years (292)

When Terah is born ... Every single one of his ancestors up to and including Noah is still living. Age since boat lands is given in parenthesis.

His Great Great Great Grandfather Peleg was born only 101 years after the boat hit ground. Peleg's Great Great Great Grandfather is Shem .. one of the fathers of all humanity.

How on Gods green earth can Terah not know the story of his origins given all these people are still living ? What on earth is he, and every one else on the Earth doing making up creation stories that do not include Noah Shem or any of the other fathers of humanity even though they are directly related to these people and these people are still alive ?

Why is there no other mention of Noah and Shem in the Bible ? These dudes were still living for the whole rest of Genesis but not a further mention.

The other civilizations that Abraham encounters, Egyptians, Caananites and so on. These are descendants of Ham. Where are the creation stories of the Egyptians and Caananites that have Noah and Ham and Shem as the fathers of humanity.

We have creation stories from both cultures ... Stories that are from the same the time period when all these famous founders of humanity were still alive - why is there no mention of them ?

 

Mitt (on the age of the Universe) would undoubtedly contradict himself.

He CAN NOT claim that the Universe is only 10,000 years old....how could we see stars further away than 10,000+ lightyears?

But if he starts to "tinker" with Genesis "days" for "billions of years"....then he denies Young Earth Creationism and even his own time-lines for Noah's Flood. Because he would have ZERO logical explanation for why a "day" in the first of Genesis is "1,000,000,000 years"...but a "real 24 hour day" just a few chapters later.

 

I stopped taking him serious long ago. I simply come to this thread because the humor threads are lame... but here... this is real entertainment. God died... god can't die...god died for us... god didn't die.... you can't kill god...

man killed god... and on, and on, and on, and on, and....................

I'm still LMAO!!!!!!

 

That one is in my top 10 list of questions never answered by christians. I'd be happy with even and ATTEMPT at explaining it. And if any theist wants to have a crack at it, would you mind also telling us how (given christians claim our moral compass comes from god, and is not innate) you first came to the conclusion that god is good. Thanks in advance

 

This is retarded. We have Ice cores that date hundreds of thousands of years old. Ice core dating is very accurate as you not only have the layer count but radio chemical dating and volcanic ash correlation.

We also have coral reefs that are over 100 thousand years old and they can tell you what the temperature of the ocean was at the various dates along the way.

 

The problem with the Tanakh is that it exaggerates matters. King Sihon of Heshon sounds very grand. King Og of Bashan. Both Kings of the Amorites. Or were they?
The truth is that they were simply kings of city states. Their 'country' consisted of the area around that city that they could hold against opposition. What today we would called large towns. And this applied more or less throughout the middle east. Country boundaries were usually agreed where 2 different tribes came into contact. No boundary was ever constant. How could it be with some means of indicating where the boundary lay. No customs or border controls on roads, etc etc.

If you read and study the Tanakh you see this time and time again. When David supposedly extended his borders to the Euphrates to the north east of Palestine he conquered many city states if they didn't pay homage to him.

At times cities would agree to combine to defend each others cities, or combine their armies to go to war. The Philistines often did this. They had 5 cities with five kings and they often combined to raid Israel.

So really this defeat of Sihon, and the defeat of Og, was no big deal. The Hebrews were far greater numerically and could provide more 'soldiers' than many of the 'cities' put together.

Of course all this is taken from the Tanakh which has a tendency to exaggerate the acts of their predecesors.

And it all depends on whether you believe in the 'reliability' of the Tanakh.

 

Of course. Some of the stories in the OT may be based on some events in history and, as most myths these stories got bigger with time.

The point of that post was not to look at the historical accuracy but to asses the actions of God, were that story taken at face value.

Here we have God hardening the mind of a King against the Israelites and then having the Israelites use this as an excuse not only to defeat this Kings army but then to go and wipe out women and children in all of the towns in this kingdom.

This is evil stuff. This is the same God that made laws stating that children should not be punished for the sins of their parents.

This God likes to contradict himself.

 

yet the indoctrination is so complete (in many Christians) that they put this glaring fail down to interpretation.

when I go out tomorrow and murder several families for looking at me funny, you'll all agree that it's not NECESSARILY evil - if interpreted ever just so and only viewed in soft lighting.

 

Try to restrain yourself but if it does happen just claim that you were doing Gods work and our resident Fundees will support you.

 

The Christian Church has never taught that God consisted of only the Father. The original Nicene Creed 325 and the Creed of 381 are very similar. Let me point out that the Nicene Creed was created as result of many heresies that were being circulated in the early Church. One of the major heresies that were being taught was called Arianism, which stated that Jesus was not truly God.

Let's take a look at a part of the original Creed of 325 concerning Jesus:

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;

Now let's take a look at the similarity of the Creed of 381:

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;

Notice that in both of these Creeds it mentions that Jesus was begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;

This being of one substance with the Father clearly indicates that Jesus is God or the 2nd person of the Godhead.

Refer to Colossians 2:16-17 and Romans 14:5, these Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God.

 

The Bible does not give us a date of the Great Flood. All these civilizations you mentioned including the Egyptian pyramids all came about after the Great Flood.

 

Natural laws exist because the universe has a Creator God who is logical and has imposed order on His universe.

But yes, storms, floods, and earthquakes are indeed a part of the present world. We sometimes call them "natural disasters," but they are not a surprise to God. Yes, God certainly can control the weather and send deadly storms.

Some have concluded that suffering occurs because it is beyond God's control. This is incorrect. God has indeed established certain laws and principles that govern nature, but He remains sovereign over these laws.

Psalm 148:8 NLT states, "'Fire and hail, snow and clouds, wind and weather that obey Him."

Yes, God is in control, and has His reasons for all kinds of weather, both fair and stormy.

 

Sorry. My post wasn't meant as a criticism of your post. But I take your point.

I don't accept the Tanakh as 'truth'. I happen to believe that the Hebrews chose Yahweh as their god - not the other way round - and thus attribute what happens to them as down to his will and actions. In truth much of it is down to their own actions.
In their thinking Pharaoh, despite all the 'supposed' plagues, wouldn't let them go, so God must have hardened his heart. Sihon wouldn't let them 'through his land' despite their promises not to stray from their path or affect him, so God must have hardened his heart. Thus we have the Tanakh 'hard-hearted' God of justice and vengeance. As they say 'it's all in the mind'.

 

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/abraham.html

This date agrees with your "answering Genesis" site that you love so much. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2014/02/10/carbon-dating-camels

The migration of Abraham from UR. This coincides with the Amorite migration described in the "mari" tablets. The name of Abraham's father Terah is found in these tablets and other names from Abrahams time.

If you want to do some more research you can read this book: http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924005788256#page/n223/mode/2up

The Chapter "Babylonia at the time of Abraham" starts on Page 165. If you want to fast forward to the next chapter "Abraham" you can find where the name of one of the Kings Abraham encounters is given as the name of Hammurabi. (1800BC) This is on Page 208-211 Page 211 The identification of the name Amraphel and Hammurabi is held to be "beyond dispute"

If we know the approximate time when Abraham lived we know the approximate date of the flood.

 

No worries as I did not take it as such.

The Israelites were polytheistic and had many Gods. Yahweh was a fusion of "El" the creator God and others such as Baal the storm God. We know that at least sometimes YHWH mentioned in conjunction with his consort "Asherah".

Asherah was El's consort. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/archeology-hebrew-bible.html

 

I agree. I've been all through during my studies. I actually think they wrote their Tanakh mainly around the 2-4 century BCE. I think before the exile polytheism was prevalent in their history, but during and after they formulated their monotheism under Jahweh, though with some lapses into Hellenism during the Maccabean times.