Part 24 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

There are two meanings of the phrase "Son of Man". The first meaning is as a reference to the prophecy of Daniel 7:13-14:

"As my vision continued that night, I saw someone like a son of man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient One and was led into his presence. He was given authority, honor, and sovereignty over all the nations of the world, so that people of every race and nation and language would obey him. His rule is eternal—it will never end. His kingdom will never be destroyed."---Daniel 7:13-14 NLT

So when Jesus used this phrase He was proclaiming Himself as the Messiah. The Jews during that time knew to whom the phrase was referring to...the Messiah that was prophesied to come.

The second meaning is that Jesus was a human being. Jesus was fully God the Messiah, but He was also a human being. So in essence Jesus was God in human flesh.

Jesus is God, the Triune God, the Trinity God consisting of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

If Jesus was a created being, then He could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could do that since God is sinless, therefore Jesus was God.

Only God could take on the sins of the world, die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

To us Christians, Jesus Christ is our beloved Lord Savior! One day we will be with our Lord and live with Him in paradise for all eternity!

 

1. I speak from History - not opinion.
2. I differentiated between before and after the so-called flood. You haven't. Therefore your remark for other people to see what I say does not apply. You really can't get it right, can you.
3. What world do you live in? Evil abounds all over the world. Take off your rosy tinted spectacles and look at the real world. The West intervenes when their own interests are at heart. West Africa is in turmoil and we stay out. We caused turmoil in the Middle East to protect Oil interests. The world is in a state of turmoil. People are dying of starvation and disease and we give token amounts to ease our consciences as individuals and nations.
Don't come back with 'Christian organisations helping' - so are many secular organisations.
Mankind is following its 'human' animal instinct of survival and no god will save it.
4. You really are naive. Every nation, including Canada, looks after its own interests first. Try this.
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/canada-sinks-lower-on-the-list-of-foreign-aid-donor-nations/ Thats for your benefit. Other nations are the same. And many promise then don't deliver.
5. I agree the war between good and evil is real, it's just your idea that good is winning I find utterly depressing. If you think that way then evil has already won. Perhaps your Satan have lured you into this way of thinking, to take you offguard.
By the way in that list of evil doers I forgot the Borgia Popes.

 

Noah's descendants would spread out all over the world they would become the Assyrians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Incas, Hans, Africans,Chinese, Indians, etc. etc.
The flood story is about good and evil, weather on global climate, nature's destructive power, men's evilness, men's ingenuity, men's struggle for a better life it is about science but most of all it is about God.

 

Then if you do speak from history you should know that Jewish historians agreed that the reason why the 12 Tribes were destroyed or the ancient Israel empire was due to their transgression and corrupting God's words their failure to keep their covenant with God. You should also know that the Samaritans was the result of intermarrying or are mixed races of Jews and none Jews that was due to the Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian conquest of Israel and that the Samaritans are a clear evidence that the 12 Tribes that were uprooted by the Assyrians and Babylonians would also eventually mix with local inhabitants as to where ever they resettle that is why we have Russian-Jews, Arab-Jews, English-Jews, German-Jews, Chinese-Jews, Persian-Jews, Iraqi-Jews, Arab-Jews, African-Jews etc. etc.You should also know that the term "Jew" was originated to refer to the tribe of Judah. This corruption of God's law continued on and reach its zenith with the Pharisees open rejection of Jesus Christ. I can go on but we'll stop here for now.

The after flood is the outcome of the before the very reason why there was the great flood. You try to differentiate the before and after by ignoring the before.

This world is an imperfect world and Jesus Christ spoke clearly about that in spite of the many hardship that exist as you mention humanity from the goodness of their heart through Jesus Christ has unselfishly acted to do what they can to relieved what can be relived and give the victims some hope and trust that there are still many good people on their side. One act of kindness at a time and we are making a big difference. We have demonstrated that when it comes to crunch time there are enough good people that will rise up to the call to save others and humanity and fight back evil.

Every nation, every individual including you look after their own interest at a certain point what separates was from them is that we act for the better good for advancing human rights for the progression, stability and civility of the world not for oppression, tyranny, suppression of prosperity and freedom we do this until the day that Jesus Christ returns to make things permanently good and separates evil permanently.

Not sure what your evil concept is? If according to you evil has won then why are we still here enjoying the freedom that others don't?
In your list are all these also evil doers International Council for Science, The Nobel Organization, International Labour Organization, UN, UNESCO, World Health Organization, Arab League, NATO, ASEAN, World Bank, Atheist Alliance International, Red Cross etc. just to name a few.

 

The Bible is not about clues it is real and very clear only men who do not believe on the historicity of the Bible will be using clues to claim what is not about the Bible.
trevorw would disagree on this as I would too = "The Prophecy was that the Messianic leader would restore the former Glory of Israel (While alive)"
Pilate's involvement with Jesus sentencing was due to pressure from the Pharisees if he had his way he would set Jesus free and let the Pharisees deal with Jesus.

 

Pilate did not sentence Jesus but this is not the point. You are correct when you state the trial of Jesus was due to accusations and pressure from the Pharisees.

You should watch this documentary on the early Christian Church. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/

The coinage (just like today) had a depiction of the ruler, Caesar. With the depiction of Caesar were the words "Divini Filius" "Son of the Divine". http://ejc-nexus.net/AMBS-Handouts/Jn1.1-18-SonofGodandAncientCoins.pdf

The charge against Jesus was blasphemy.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/jesusaccount.html

The Jewish concerns over blasphemy differed from the Romans. The Romans allowed many different religions and belief in many different Gods.

What you could not do is claim to have a direct relationship with a God, be divine, the Messiah, be the Son of God and so on. This was for Caesar and Caesar alone. To make such claims would be blasphemy against Caesar.

Jesus was on trial for blasphemy before Pilate. Pilate found him not guilty of this charge.

This means that Jesus would have had to deny his divinity, that he was the Son of God, the Messiah, and any other questions (and there would have been many as the Romans were very litigious) that the Romans had in relation to blasphemy.

 

I speak from History - not opinion.

Many modern scholars take much of the Tanakh as a theological book.

Now I've said this before somewhere, but I'll say it again.

When the Tanakh was written around the middle of the 1st Millenium the Jews wrote themselves a history and included theology. They had to put down their misfortunes to their 'sinning' and there 'good luck' to their obeying their god. We see and here the same in Christianity today. People in other countries suffer a natural disaster and the fanatics say it's down to their sin. If something goes well in their lives christians put it down to gods blessing. If it goes wrong they question their ways.
What is in the Tanakh history can be put down to natural disasters or natural stupidity in not following sensible paths. In the ancient East invasion was an almost everyday thing, god or not. Stories of individuals going through experiences were theological studies, not actual events. Why would god send Abraham from Ur on a roundabout route to the land god promised to Abraham, and then have him travel to Egypt, sin, and return to the future promised land. Why would Jacob and the family stay in Egypt 400 years instead of leaving when the family was over? Why would god take Moses and Israel to the edge of Canaan, only for them to wander for another 40 years? Why couldn't they walk straight into the land instead of so much supposed bloodshed? Job is another theological debate. I think it was the Sumerians that had a similar debate involving a baker - it's somewhere in my records but you can look it up for yourself. You can argue a theological case for most of the above.
The Jews looked at what had happened to them in the era of the Kings, good and bad and extended their mythical history into the past.

Not so long ago I heard one Jewish President admit that Jewish history went back just to the Kings Era. Can't remember the exact words.

But I thought that the after flood was supposed to BE different.

So you can 'speak' properly.

The paragraph about Jewish this and that. Few of these countries existed in ancient times. see below

1. After the first exile and return many Jews stayed in Babylon and others spread around the near middle east. That was part of the reason for the Septuagint. Jews are everywhere and in the past those we actually know about married within the Jewish family. No-one knows outside that. In the past decades there has been loosening of those Family ties and Jews, mainly secular, have married outside this Family. This is still forbidden in Orthodoxy. Jewish history from the Babylonian exile is quite complicated.

The Samaritans DID NOT intermarry with the Jews. Any Jew attempting to marry outside his Jewish family would at least be ostracized, and as the family was the life of Judaism it didn't happen. Why do you think there were so many enclaves of Jews in Palestine in the middle ages.
In early times the Jews were not averse to forcing groups of people into Judaism. Herod was an Idumean, yet he became a Jew, as did his tribe. Was that their individual choice, or did Herod require it for his advantage, or did the Hyrcanus (Hasmonean General for Roman Army) force them.

And there you go. Claiming that only Christianity can bring about the defeat of evil. The number of non-christians seeking to improve mans lot probably exceeds anything that Christianity can do. And the people who stand between us and evil are more often than not non-christians - like soldiers, doctors, nurses and many others. They all play their part.

Now I'm off to watch football

 

That's your view/opinion that you are entitled to, however as a practicing Christian I don't see it that way.

Today there are well over 2 billion practicing Christians world-wide, I'd say based on that our Lord Savior Jesus Christ and His disciples time were well spent in getting the message out, the Good News of salvation.

We are spiritually rescued from the consequences of our sins, we are redeemed by the sacrifice that our Lord Savior Jesus Christ made by shedding His innocent blood on the cross as payment for our sins...Praise the Lord!

 

Your proof of that? Church attendance/membership means little. Baptisms mean nothing. There is no way of computating practising Christians. It's a matter of opinion and guesstimates.

 

While you may view the Christ and disciples as time well spend I am not sure they would feel the same.

While there may be 2 billion Christians, how many of these folks follow the core teachings of Christ ? Not many from what I can see although some denominations are better than others. At the bottom of the barrel are the fundamentalists who have pretty much made up their own religion.

Orthodox would rank among the top of the mainstream denominations (IMO)

Not according to Jesus but you keep on keeping on

Empty words are not going to save you .... at least not according to Jesus.

You have repeatedly denied the words of Jesus in relation to what "the will of my Father" actually is because it conflicts with your man made dogma.

You refuse to even hear the words of Christ. Hopefully what you practice is different than what you and WR preach.

I really have a hard time believing that Jesus would have condoned killing innocent women, children and babies in his name.

 

You're really going out on a limb here. Those children, babies, and fetuses were eaten. They were eaten so God didn't kill innocents in the flood.
This is wanrens claim and mitt wholeheatedly agrees with. So they were killed in kindness. I mean eaten in kindness. Saved actually.

 

Jesus would not have been crucified if Pilate had not sentenced Jesus to be crucified and the reason why Pilate sentenced Jesus to be crucified was due to pressure from the Pharisees. It will be a contradiction to say that Pilate did not sentence Jesus and to say Pilate was pressure to sentence Jesus to be crucified.

There is no doubt Romans treat Caesar as divine as a god but that does not mean Caesar is God. "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's"

yes Jesus was charge and accused by the Pharisees for blasphemy.

The Romans do not care about Jewish religion as long as the Jews do not rebel and this include disrespecting Caesar by declaring their religion is more powerful or real than the Romans. Jesus blasphemy has nothing to do with Roman religion it is about Jewish religion and Pilate understood this.

Yes, Pilate found him not guilty and was about to set him free until the Pharisees changed the accusation against Jesus that Jesus claim to be a king this claim is consider seditious under Roman rule. And still Pilate was not convince because Jesus told Pilate he was not king of this world.

Pilate not finding Jesus guilty of blasphemy was not due to Jesus denying he is not God if that would be the case Jesus would have already told the Pharisees that. Pilate reason for not finding Jesus guilty of blasphemy was because Jesus claim to be God has nothing to do with Roman religion but is about Jewish religion that was why Pilate told the Pharisees to punish Jesus according to Jewish laws and they responded by changing the accusation from blasphemy to sedition against Rome for claiming Jesus claim to be a king is against Roman law. "We have no King but Caesar!!". That was why Pilate put the initial at Jesus cross "King of the Jews".

 

I was not referring to the flood. I was referring to when God commanded the Israelites to kill women, children and babies.

WanRen also supported this killing by claiming that these babies were evil because their parents were evil.

 

Jesus was on trial for blasphemy. Not for claiming he was king of the Jews.

As usual you are making things up. Jesus was on trial for "Blasphamy".

The "King of the Jews" comes from Jesus claiming to be the Messiah. The Messiah is the King of the Jews by default.

The Romans posting this were not only making fun of Jesus but making fun of the Jewish messianic tradition.

Nice try ... but Jesus was on trial for blasphemy ... claiming to be the Messiah that the Jews believed was prophesied to come to restore the Jewish nation to its former glory. This Messiah would also be the King appointed by God.

The problem is not the "king part" but the "appointed by God" part. For this Jesus was on trial as is stated in the Bible.

 

If Jesus was going to be the king who was going to be his queen and concubines?

 

O.K.

That's all consistently Christian, but just an invention to give power to Rome. It's being increasingly exposed for what it is: barbaric and illogical. You can have it. I reject it entirely. I'm a confirmed heretic now.

The Kingdom of Heaven/God can be accessed from within. Jesus said so. The savior/sin theme is just Rome-oriented priestcraft at work, backed by the sword in its heyday.

 

The passage you highlighted

is off the internet - WarRens quoting again.

There's nothing in the Torah to prevent anyone using Gods name, and in ancient times they did. Read the Tanakh - oops O.T. Neither is there any reason for not writing Gods name in the Torah. The translation of Deut. 12:3 comes into play. The Israelites are told to deface idols and erase names of gods.The Jews fear that if they write Gods name someone might come along in the future and erase it, and that would 'insulting' God. This only applies to 'permanent' things like stone tablets etc.
All the 'prohibitions' are of later origin, defined by Rabbi's etc.
It's all due to the fear of Gods name being used wrongly, sometimes unwittingly. That's it briefly.

 

Jesus did not come to judge the world or correct the world (society) to make it Heaven on Earth. The main purpose He came into the world was to save mankind from sins, that's why we Christians refer to Jesus as our Lord Savior.

Scripture tells us, "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him." John 3:17 NAS

We also read the passage in Scripture where the Roman governor Pontius Pilate interrogates Jesus:

Am I a Jew?” Pilate retorted. “Your own people and their leading priests brought you to me for trial. Why? What have you done?”

Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”

Pilate said, “So you are a king?”

Jesus responded, “You say I am a king. Actually, I was born and came into the world to testify to the truth. All who love the truth recognize that what I say is true.”---John 18:35-37 NLT

Sorry but I cannot respond to a statement that is incoherent in my view.

 

Spouting nonsense again ? Say it isn't so Thanks for that.

I remember we had discussed whether or not the Caesars were considered divine during the tie of Jesus....

Not sure if you say the links but sorted that one out !

 

I agree Jesus was on trial for blasphemy brought against him by the Pharisees not by the Romans. It became about being the king of the Jews after the Pharisees realized that Pilate wanted to released Jesus because what ever blasphemy charges against Jesus has nothing to do with Rome it has to do with Jewish laws. By changing it to king of the Jews now it becomes a Roman issue.

Nothing to make up about facts you just said it and I agree Jesus was on trial for blasphemy and later change to be king of the Jews. For the Romans they don't care if Jesus is the Messiah or God or King as long as it does not claim or challenging the authority of Rome. The Pharisees made it a challenge against Rome by lying to the Romans that Jesus claims were all directed at Rome. "We have no King but Caesar!" so they shouted.

I agree the posting of 'king of the Jews" by the Romans at Jesus cross was to mock the Jews just how stupid the Jews were to kill their own king. It was a throw back at the Pharisees who thought that they have outsmarted Pilate that is why they were upset and protested and demand not to post "king of the Jews". Pilate outsmarted them he is blameless for Jesus death.

And the Pharisees rejected Christ and God and used that prophecy by reversing and changing it to mean a Messiah to fight the Romans in order to get the Romans to kill Jesus to do their dirty job.

The appointed part is not the problem because by being appointed would mean a prophet and the Jews or Pharisees have no problem with prophets they just ignored them but to claim to be the Son of God and God is the problem that is why it was about blasphemy and the Bible stated it very clearly on this on the other hand there is nothing on the Bible that state Jesus was appointed by God.

 

The Pharisees have already insulted God by having Him crucified that is why Pilate posted "King of the Jews" and the Pharisees rejected it and demand it be not posted Pilate this time did not listen to them because he knew very well that Jesus is innocent of all crimes accuse of him by the Pharisees. They accuse him of blasphemy is false because Jesus is the Son of God. They accuse him for being the Messiah to fight Rome is false for Jesus is the Messiah to save their souls. And they accuse Jesus for being a King is also false Jesus is not King of the Jews He is the King of Kings

Everything about what the Pharisees interprets about the Tanakh were wrong that is why this goes back to the destruction of the Nation of Israel the 12 Tribes their destruction was due to their corruption of the Tanakh over riding and substituting God's laws with their laws and tradition. Today many Jews are starting to realized their history and their sacred covenant with God through Jesus Christ.

 

The Pharisees didn't "change the prophesy"... The Jewish messiah was supposed to be an anointed warrior king like David...

 

You are absolutely correct here. The Pharisees wanted Jesus dead but the Romans did not much care about Jewish law so they charged him with something that they would stick in Roman Law.

As previously discussed the Caesar was viewed as "Son of God", Gods appointed messenger on earth, part Divine and so on.

For a citizen to make such claims would be to blaspheme/usurp Caesar. This was what Jesus was on trial for.

During the trial the Romans would have asked Jesus "Do you claim to be Son of God, Do you claim to be divine" and a host of other questions related to any self proclaimed divinity.

If Jesus would have responded "Yes" to any of these questions he would have been found guilty.

In order to be found "not guilty" Jesus would have had to deny that he was "Son of God, Divine" and so on.

 

3 posts in a row from you with near flawless english grammar. Ooops.

 

That is where they got it wrong because they were expecting a warrior king and in spite that God Himself in flesh and blood as Jesus Christ is telling them they got it wrong they still refused to believe. because they chose to believe and follow their own man made laws and tradition.