My position on Abortion

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by AzJeff, Feb 18, 2016.

  1. TRFjr

    TRFjr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  2. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    So what. What is your point?
     
  3. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Completely and utterly wrong, the role of the brain is to regulate the heart rate not to keep it beating, heart cells grown in a lab will reach a point where they will "beat" in synchronicity without the requirement of a brain. The heart follows a pattern different than most muscles in the body. The beating of the heart itself is not regulated by the brain, but actually within the heart itself. The only function of the brain is tell the heart how fast it needs to beat. Nerve cells within the heart continue firing for an extended period of time, promoting the process of beating.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't disagree, however it shows you assertion of "... brain activity is linked to movement voluntary or not it is the brain causing movement" is incorrect.
     
  4. RedDirtWalker

    RedDirtWalker Well-Known Member

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    Going to have to disagree with you here.....as a male.

    Yes the child is carried by the woman, but it took a man to get it there. Science hasn't proven that a woman can not have a miracle child. In many states there are laws on the books for fetal homicide, if something happens to the woman and the fetus is killed in the act. So if a person can be charged with fetal homicide why can't the father of the fetus that was aborted press charges against the woman?

    I also feel like a man should be able to sign away his rights to the future child and not have to pay child support....ever. This would be the mans version of an abortion.
     
  5. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I can handle almost any position on this issue except this one.What arrogant sexist crap My opinion matters because I am a voter in a republic. I have a right and a duty as a citizen to be involved in how my government defines who gets legal protection from what private conduct and what government reach. It is absolutely my business because I am part of the decision-making apparatus that turns ideas into laws and balances conflicting needs and interest. I have the right because the welfare of other people is paramount in how I do my duty and that duty exists irrespective of my genitalia.

    Abortion legislation is about where law touches lives, and insofar as law reflects this country's values and impacts real live people, nobody is going to tell me to shut up and take a seat. Whether I am pro-choice or pro-life, its my country too and it's my neighbor being hurt or helped .
     
  6. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

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    What if the woman had been with more than one man and no one was sure exactly which one the father was?
    (This is not all that uncommon in hippie communes)

    This reminds me of an old TV episode...
    Keeping Up Appearances, "The Christening" (wait through the quick chinese fantasy game advertisement and then skip to 21:00 in the video)
     
  7. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You have made a valiant attempt in rationalizing your reason for justifying government interference with the inner workings of women's bodies. But you failed. So you're a voter, so you're a citizen, that still doesn't give you the moral authority to interfere with women's private medical decisions. You're just so NOBLE with your concern about the welfare of other people and exercising your DUTY to interfere. If you're so concerned about the welfare of other people, and just assuming that women are people, abortion is fourteen times safer than giving birth. OTOH, zefs are NOT people, so you needn't feel all obligated to exercise your DUTY.
     
  8. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You do understand, do you not, that "carrying" and giving birth is considerably more work, more expense, more risky, more everything than the effort it took a man to get it there? That is why a woman gets more choice. Men get a lot of choice and control in a child's life: a man gets to choose whether or not to have sex, whether to use birth control, and those are the choices involving his body. Women have no control over a man's choices involving his own body. After a child is born, a man has a LOT of choice in parenting and can legally pursue full or partial custody. During the time a potential child in inside a woman's body, the man has really no choice and is limited to persuasion in getting his way. This means that after the sex act, a man really has no control, but you knew that going in (pun intended), so don't whine.
     
  9. LibChik

    LibChik Well-Known Member

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    You have ZERO right to involve yourself in the private medical decision of another person. Just like they don't have the right to make medical decisions for you.

    Abortion has been happening since the dawn of time, long before the forming of America. And no woman is going to let a stranger make decisions for her body. Its absolutely, 100% none of your business. Its a personal health issue for pregnant women.
     
  10. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please note that it is against the rules to "make just a few little modifications" to my posts. See rule 4. Future violations will be reported.
     
  11. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

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    Excuse me? Women get to have choice whether or not to have sex too.

    If the child is ever born. Under the current system the woman gets to have all the control over that.

    We can say the same thing about the woman, if abortion ever gets banned.
     
  12. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

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    I think it's ok as long as the modifications are clearly marked (in this case in red) so others can clearly see what you did not write.
     
  13. LibChik

    LibChik Well-Known Member

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    As a male, your rights and choices end when your biological contribution ends.

    Women make longer and more significant biological contributions in childbirth and their rights and choices end when their contribution end....at a later time.

    Therefore, if you don't want a child, you have every right not to impregnate a woman. Once you've given up your sperm for development in HER body, your right to choice ends.

    That's why sex should never be treated casually for either gender. Men and women both need to understand that having casual sex can result in painful decisions and medical procedures or unwanted childbirth.

    Child support isn't the same thing as being a father...it takes more than a check to be a father. You have every right not to be a father but you have to pay for your mistakes if you act in an irresponsible manner. The woman either gets to have a painful and difficult medical procedure or raise a child on her own.

    If you don't like that, keep your penis in your pants and teach your male friends to do the same.
     
  14. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, they do, is that a problem for you? Do you feel compelled to make sure the number of choices are equal for men and women? I recognize that both men and women get to choose whether to have sex and also whether they make the sensible decision to use birth control. Those decisions involve their own bodies, they are not making decisions forcing another to do something.


    True that! That is because women assume all the risks, discomforts, pains, financial expense, damage to their bodies, emotional stress, etc., so they get to decide whether to assume them or not.


    But women know going in that they can have an abortion if things go wrong. Banning abortion won't stop them, it will just make them less safe.
     
  15. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

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    Women have every right not to be impregnated.
     
  16. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    In this country there rights to their body do not stop AFTER being impregnated
     
  17. LibChik

    LibChik Well-Known Member

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    And if they do get pregnant, they'll deal with the decisions they have to make.

    Child support is the right of a child, not a woman. So if you want dominion over your sperm...you have the right to decide not to leave it in the uterus of a woman you don't know or trust.

    If you don't do that, you don't have to be a father but you very well may have to write a check.
     
  18. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

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    So women have no obligation to support their child, only the man. :wink:

    why would you expect the man to provide support financially, but find it unreasonable for the woman to provide support biologically?
     
  19. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Gender:
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    Or it may happen before that.
     
  20. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Only if you believe in magic
     
  21. LibChik

    LibChik Well-Known Member

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    She has two choices...to either biologically deal with having a child and possibly raising it on her own, or, to pay for and have an invasive medical procedure to scrape out her uterus and deal with the resulting discomfort from that.

    Both of those things are hers alone to have to handle...men don't have to do it.
     
  22. RedDirtWalker

    RedDirtWalker Well-Known Member

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    Agreed

    Agreed

    STOP RIGHT THERE......(Meatloaf reference, and given the topic you know the song)

    So let me get this straight. A man and a woman have sex and a pregnancy occurs. The woman doesn't want the kid, but the man does. The woman gives him the finger and gets the abortion. OR The woman wants the kid and the man doesn't, the woman gives him the finger and he's paying for it the rest of his life or until the kid is 18.

    Your right, it is the woman's body and while I disagree with not having any say in my child's death, I also don't have the right to absolve my rights and responsibilities to the child.....(let's refer to this as the mans abortion)?

    Why can the woman have an abortion, but the man can't?
     
  23. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    LOL, Now read my post again. I did not say I was pro-life. Maybe I feel I have a duty to be concerned about the welfare of women who are denied access to a medical procedure. Maybe I am concerned about the welfare of a fetus. Maybe I am concerned about the values of our nation either way. In either case, where our statutes define a boundary between our republican government and its citizens, my opinion matters.
     
  24. LibChik

    LibChik Well-Known Member

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    Because your choices end when your biological contribution ends.

    Once you give up your sperm to a woman, your decision making is over. And that's why men need to start realizing that casual sex isn't casual.

    If that woman decides to give birth to that child, that child is now sentient and has rights under the law once its born. So child support isn't about the woman's decision, its about the man's decision to leave his sperm lying around in some woman he had sex with.

    Men have to protect their sperm and be very careful where they leave it.
     
  25. RedDirtWalker

    RedDirtWalker Well-Known Member

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    You keep going on about the mans decision and the mans that...........where is the woman's decision in all of this, or are implying that all women submit to men upon requested so it really is all the man fault?
     

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