I agree, thing is if it does ever get to SCOTUS then if they are doing what they should they should respect and uphold the Constitution and their previous findings in related cases dealing with self-defence and equal protection, which would mean all abortion restrictions being repealed, and the states being liable for funding for abortions. Pro-lifers should be very careful what the wish for.
Usually. Like grannie, the only pro life women I've "met" have argued from a personal perspective without answering personal questions/.For example, I have several times asked a vehemently pro life a mother what she would do if she found out her 15 year old daughter had become pregnant after a drunken coupling at a party. I have never had a straight answer. Only dirty girls make a silly mistake. Not their little angels. if they do, they don't say so - or they show absolutely no concern to the rights and welfare of pregnant women. You never will. Eventually a pro life supporter will say something on the lines of "... she should have kept her legs together" Sometimes sooner, sometime later. I have never, ever known a pro life supporter to show concern for the rights of pregnant women to bodily autonomy.
Because abortion is legal. Someone killing the zef against the woman's wishes is not. Way to show you care so much about children!!!!
Well, of course there's more sympathy when the woman had no choice in the matter. That still doesn't necessarily mean abortion should be supported though.
We sign away our rights to the zygote, that's not a human remember. If the female decides to carry it until it becomes a human, that's her choice. We have nothing to do with it anymore.
Whether you support abortion or not is irrelevant, if you support your constitution that is .. tell me do you support your constitution?
You do realize that you made this comment in a thread that is in-favor of aborting soon to be children don't you? Not just ignoring them or taking responsibility for them, but throwing them in the trash before they cost money.
Why would you equate soon-to-be with actual children? Every combination of sperm and egg is a potential person. Do you cry about the 1 x 10^26 potential persons lost per day by sperm-egg combinations that did not occur? I could be president someday. If somebody shot me, did they assassinate a president?
I'm certain everyone is eagerly waiting for the OP's next cut and paste opinion statement. I'm curious though. How does the OP suggest knowing when the 12th week has been reached? Weekly forced pregnancy tests of all women?
I admit I didn't have time to read every post in this thread, but my view on abortion an isn't hat they should be legal until a heart beat can be detected.
I have never dealt with ANYONE that supports, promotes, or likes abortion in my life, and neither have you. People do not tell others they need to abort, they simply think the right to your own body choices should be protected.
As someone that has studied medicine and worked in healthcare, I know both sides of the Abortion debate, both sides have their minds made up already, and build up JUNK SCIENCE to support their points of view. When a sperm and egg unite, everything is set in motion to become a new human being, sentience is a gradual process, I will simplify it because I am tapping on a phone, if you want a full description with citations some $$$ will be needed. So exactly when a fetus is self aware is irrelevant and immaterial, what I do object to is pro life people pushing sentience aspects and levels before time and I also pbjct to pro abortion people dehumanizing a fetus to make the killing palatable, both are CRAP AND BULL SH and I say this as a M.D. Abortion is a medical procedure plain & simple, it involves terminating a "potential life" this is why religion and other people are against having sex willy nilly out of wedlock, underage sex, adultery, etc...... rape is another, because of an unwanted child. Irresponsible behavior, promiscuity, high risk behavior all have a cost, from a medical view, forget the santimonious or moral or religous implications. There are many Medically valid reasons to kill a fetus, I say KILL because thst is what it is, and have no current medical license now, so I have nothing to lose from some MRB. (52 years old ) You know the reasons, incest, rape, etc.... I object personally to abortion as birth control, however, a woman or women need to debate this, not men so much. Abortion is a womans issue because everything tames place in her body and a woman pays the price, not a man, so I am a man and do not feel qualified to tell a woman how to Govern Her Body ! I do have feelings as I am not a monster or a Psycopath or Sociopathic azzhat. In clinicals, OBGYN, I remember a mother in for a sonogram, I was observing the procedure, the tech was running the equipment, I did not know much other than technical theory, however, even I could tell quickly, something was radically wrong, no sound no movement, nothing, I looked at the tech, she was silently crying, saying a hail mary, I felt as if I had been punched hard in the stomach, even though it was a first late trimester, the mother suddenly noticed how we looked, we both felt as if we had lost a life and now the mother looked lost and abandoned, I picked up a phone and called for a stat psychiatric consult, as mom would require grief support and councilling. I am still not either pro or anti abortion, I am against people manipulating me one way or another with junk science and unproved BS, it is a medical procedure that is medically necessitated for many reasons, many are quite valid some not so valid, however you slice it, don't insult my inteligence with false claims of when a fetus is not sentient etc....... to bolster a POLITICAL AGENDA, because that is what I chiefly obnect to more than Abortion, from both sides, the ones willing to blow up a clinic, and the others that Insist the fetus is a hamburger so they can pretend it us not killing a life, because when you realize you are killing, as a Medical Doctor, that took an oath to not harm, you may have a Psych issue.
You have basically asserted the position I have, as far as I am concerned what the fetus "is" is irrelevant, whether it feels pain or not is irrelevant, whether it is the product of consensual sex or not is irrelevant .. the only thing that is relevant is whether the woman consents to being and remaining pregnant and accepting or not accepting the injuries pregnancy imposes on her. that is not a political viewpoint it is the fundamental viewpoint of freedom of the individual. though I would be interested in discussing the junk science you mention.
I don't think you know both sides since you refer to Pro-Choicers as Pro-Abortion. There may be some but I've only seen and heard about Pro-Choicers. I have never known one to say abortion isn't killing a fetus....or that it was hamburger. And "Pro-Life" is a silly name since the only life they have been proven to care about is theirs and the fetus'. Claiming to be a doctor holds no weight. Personal anecdotes mean nothing to me. Abortion is about women's rights to their own bodies....and men have the right to comment. You mention the "validity" of reasons for abortion.... no woman needs to get validation for her reason....NO one is that particular woman nor should anyone else decide what is "valid" for her.
There is a HUGE difference between "soon to be" and "potential". There is a potential of a meteor hitting the earth and ending life as we know it. Do we worry about it....no. Now if a meteor was confirmed to soon hit the planet we would worry about it then. Also, if you were not President at the time.....no they didn't. If you were President at the time......yes they did. Again, HUGE difference between what is and what could be. I do find the dramatics interesting though.
Anyone who claims to care for children would never advocate a parent not supporting his/her offspring. - - - Updated - - - Your point is .... ?
In 20 years of debating this issue online, I have never seen a prochoicer say the zef isn't genetically human or call it 'hamburger'. Not.one.single.time.
There isn't a meaningful moral difference. Soon to be just presumes the likely outcome, but does not affect the current status of the fetus. If you say a woman is soon to be pregnant versus potential to get pregnant, all you're assessing is level of certainty that a status will be achieved. But murdering her would not be double homicide just because you assume she will soon be pregnant.
You point out how great of a father I wouldn't be if I wanted to sign off my rights and any responsibility, but no comments about the woman that just aborts it. I just find it funny.
Correct, so I never inferred that a woman with eggs and sperm in her was pregnant to which the fetal homicide would apply. Just having sperm and eggs together doesn't guarantee fertilization. My point was this. Until it turns in to something it's nothing (not literally, but figuratively of course). Sperm, eggs.....there both parts that are only parts until they come together to make a whole.
The very fact that you feel there could be any reason to fear, reprisals from a Medical Review Board for posting online comments, really says something about the sociopolitical atmosphere in the U.K. To most Americans, the very idea would be Orwellian.
