referendum: Leave the United States of America

We tried the secesssion thing once. As you know, Northern Liberals did not allow that to happen. But according to some liberals >>>MOD EDIT Off Topic Removed<<< , their thought has changed. They're now willing to let us escape their oppression. So, what say you? Through the dictatorship of the Electoral College, alot of our voices in the Northern States, the Mid-West States, etc are practically ignored.


See: The California thread on this very issue. Since the only way Liberals know how to practice "democracy" is to ostracize the individual States and the people living in them, I say it's long time for us to leave.

There will be some issues: We'll have to set up our own sort of Welfare program for those who are on Welfare, but it'll be vastly different(IE: Encouraging independence, growth and a job). Not only that domestically, but we'd have to set up our own military as well as a constitution(IE: A binding document for our government.)

It'll take a lot of work, and we'd be basically starting from ground zero. But it's admitting that this country is unsalvageable. Liberals hate us(and prove it with high taxation) and we hate them. This hatred will boil over, eventually.

Rather than watch that hatred boil over into something we'd regret(just like the last Civil War), I express to Liberals that a dissoluble Union is preferable to that.

 

Very atypical of you AN. I'm rather surprised. I don't hate anyone. Do you?

Maybe we should split. One nation for rational people, and the other for haters and other emotionally driven people.

I'm disappointed, AN. Your posts are usually well written. You drinking? Lol. j/k

 

We should not secede we should kick the liberals out. We have the military on our side and the money. From NSA records we can determine who the liberals are and throw them all into California then sell it to Mexico so they can deal with these people.

 

I would support my state leaving the US, but they would never allow it for logistical reasons. I am fairly well sick of federalism and the two parties that control it.

 

Perhaps I didn't elaborate enough on it. But let's face it: Washington is this enclave, cut off from the 50 States that make up America. Even Washington's own representatives don't get a vote in Congress! They dangle money over the 50 States, and fail to invest in the Union, blackmailing us.

Now, if I met a Liberal down the street I wouldn't "hate" him or her per say, but I hate their system. I hate how they look down on those who don't think like them. And I hate how their systematic approach has failed the US and has millions of Americans in poverty, and other Americans just looking to scrap by with higher costs.

I hate the institution called the "Democratic Party" that seems to think, if only those pesky Republicans went away(despite the Republicans putting up less than a fight.) I look at Liberals like abusive parents who get to hide the bruises from child's services, then they beat you again for reporting it.

If I were a Briton, I would have voted for Brexit and I would have been proud of it. You tell me that without "you", I'm gonna suffer? Yeah, well you just watch. I'm going to come back stronger and bigger without you. That's always been the case when a person escapes an abusive situation.

 

most liberal states are net contributors or give more money to the country than they take with few exceptions like texas, one of the few republican states with oil that gives more than it takes from the government.

though secession won't happen because we need the military to protect america's pot of gold, all of the conservative states serve in the military more.

 

I have always supported keeping the union together, & just working toward enlightenment & sound reason to base our public policy on, instead of delusion & fantasy. But as that seems to be a distant dream, & since progressives have infiltrated & now control EVERY public institution, the only way to return to any semblance of self rule is either armed rebellion, or division. They will not give up their power willingly, as power is an addictive drug, that corrupts those who are intoxicated by it.

IMO, it is past time for either radical insurrection against those who are destroying the American Experiment in self rule, or dissolve the union & align ourselves under whichever banner of ideology we prefer. I am an American, with the principles of tolerance, non establishment of religion, & freedom to choose our ways, which is contrary to the dream of conformity & mandated belief from the progressive left. I am a stranger & alien in my own land, that my forefathers built, but has now been hijacked by anti-American, anti-human ideology.

 

Where is this pot of gold? I think it'd solve all of our problems if we could share it proportionately with every American citizen.

 

its stuck in stock portfolios and big banks, and secession isn't going to redistribute that wealth to ordinary and poor americans.

the military is going to pick sides, and it will just start a civil war.

its better to just vote for donald trump.

 

I'm just mad and fed up with all of the social policy rhetoric pitting American against American. I'm mad at our depressed prospects across the country. Now's the time for the country to be bigger, stronger, more united so we can take out the likes of ISIS and those punks who want to do us harm.

 

You're usually not this one-sided. I'm kinda surprised.

The state of the economy is everyone's doing. Yours, mine, liberals, conservatives, Democrats and Republicans. Running away from a perceived "enemy" solves nothing. Solutions can be found, but simply "running away from home" never solved anything.

 

Wake up. There will always be "an ISIS".

Before ISIS it was Al Quaeda. Before Al Qaeda it was the PLO. Before the PLO it was the Red Brigades

 

northern part of California is to nice to give away and Mexicans libreals don't like the cold mountain weather, so that part will be a new expanded nevada border like the old map here 1862
will just cut off the top of calif and put it in nevada

 

We've survived much harder times than today, AN. I understand your frustration. The economy is now global. Ain't gonna change. A better attitude would be to have faith in the American people (I do), and look for solutions within the global economy. China isn't going anywhere. We need to deal with these realities rather than get angry over them. Anger solves nothing, and you end up hating your friends rather than helping them.

 

Do the Liberals look open to accepting solutions? As far as we can see, their only interest is in winning November and I will give them credit: They do an absolutely FANTASTIC job. Sure, it screws up the country and divides it, but they do a damn good job of winning. Unfortunately those solutions come from "governing", and right now they don't care to govern.

And I hear you about running away from home. I wanted to put my stake into America, I also wanted to vow not to retreat. But with the situation becoming more and more politically divisive, I'm not sure how much more of it I//we can take. The only "advantage" to being a US citizen at this point, is being recognized as a citizen with the odd chance that you might be POTUS. That's it. Everything else, from running a business or getting wealthy. I could do that on any other rock.

We're so far from what we were when I was a kid and hell even a teenager. We're even farther from the true United States, universal in its appreciation for cultural value that I anticipated us one day being.

 

so... ive always thought that the euro was a millstone around the neck of greece. Basically the same currency cant be fit for both germany and greece since their economies are on vastly different scales.

Maybe that is the case for the US states with weak economies too.

Ive always thought thier only hope was protectionist policies so that companies from CA or NY would move to them instead of the third world for lower labor costs but now libs want to choke that out of them by imposing federal minimum wages which are designed for living in the biggest most costly cities taking away one of the main reasons companies would transfer to them.

 

It is indeed the case IMO. You can't calculate income limits on welfare for example on a national basis(like the government does.) What is "poor" in New York is filthy rich in Wisconsin(and the polar opposite is true. What's "poor" in Wisconsin, wouldn't even be able to live in New York.) This is what that California thread illustrated when people were moving out of Cali.

What the world reconfiguration is showing us, is what I predicted: The few cannot supply the many, and the many cannot live with a few supplies. We MUST have more production and even production from both classes.) We must have a true national economy.

 

Let's be fair here, AN. Both parties are mirror images of each other with the same goals and tactics. It was the Republicans whose only goal in 2009 was "stop Obama." That's not a solution.

Culture is what you make it. My life is one of motorcycle culture. Has been my entire life. That my next door neighbor speaks Spanish doesn't change this. Make your culture. You can't expect others to make it for you. Screw government. Vote, obey the law ( or don't get caught), treat people with respect, and good things will come your way.

 

If I recall, we've had civil conversations, even though we disagreed. I try to do that with everyone who isn't a Liberal (which I am). I won't throw around "racist" or "bigot" because someone disagrees with me. I'm not saying all Liberals are like myself, clearly that's not the case, but there are those who want a conversation about solutions and are willing to have them.

 

You're right. Maybe I am being reactionary. I admired Brexit, and I hope for something similar for us. Something, anything has to change to strengthen this country and our communities. Perhaps dissolution is not the answer, but both sides need to look in a mirror and realize we're risking everything we supposedly hold dear, just to score some political points.

 

No, California is very useful and is probably the coolest state in the union. Liberals are, nonetheless, useless. Were it not for urban Democrats, the news would be nothing but sports, weather, holiday parade coverage, and the occasional trailer park meth addict antics. The purpose of leftists is to make news more interesting. It is fun to listen to white leftists complain about their urban counterparts being oppressed, and how they go bat(*)(*)(*)(*)e when their daughters date them. "Oy, you bring home a schvartza?!" Ha ha ha. Like the dusky ones say, if you hang out at the barbershop long enough, you're gonna get a haircut. Anyway, it would be great to be done with their war on law enforcement, pork barrel spending, guys saying they're girls and forcing others to deal with it, etc. But we're keeping California. They can have Delaware.

 

What, besides your own circumstances, abilities and limitations is making you do anything you don't want to? Who, besides yourself, is keeping you from doing whatever you desire? Do what thou will is the whole of the law. Freedom is no unreal abstraction. Freedom exists only in the freedom to DO things

In one respect Trump is teaching his followers, and maybe all of us, this most important lesson. He is not bemoaning the fact that someone like him cannot be President. He is doing it

 

Secession is the only peaceful way. There is too much hatred and contempt for this unholy alliance to continue.

The best way would be to get a secession amendment passed which leaves it entirely up to the state governments to decide. Leave the democrats their government, and their debt, and just walk away state after state.

 

Damn straight. Before this can happen, we must each look in the mirror and tell ourselves who we are and what we want - as individuals. That's one of the things we hold dear; the freedom to be an individual. Only then can we look to a "side" for answers, jobs, profits, rights, etc., depending on what you, as an individual find to be pressing needs. Anything else is groupthink.

That's my opinion, anyway. There's nothing new about partisanship, but I believe media in this age has far too much control over many people. Politics has become entertainment. In a for-profit free society, one might think this could have been predicted. There was a time when Firing Line was the height of political talk media. People were intellectual and civil. Today's media is highly divisive. The thing is, it can only divide if we let it - power can only be given.

Hopefully I've got a good 15 - 20 years left on this earth. It will be interesting to see the power struggles that ensue.

 

The states themselves aren't homogenous. If Texas votes to secede as a state, what if Austin wants to remain with the US? Should they be allowed to secede from the state? Only seems fair.