Abortion- "It is her body!" But is it?

OK, where in biology does a fetus take ownership of the woman's body?

 

You didn't catch the joke.

See, I said it is my thread...You get it now?

 

My logic has been absolute and made sense in every way shape and form. It is something that you have yet to address in any substantial way. Your semantical arguments attempt to get around the objective truth, because you simply have no other direction to take. But nonetheless the objective truth still stands true. If she willingly has sex then she is consenting to being impregnated and therefore she has an obligation to the baby that forms inside her. Due to that obligation it is not "self defense" to kill the baby, it is murder. Your stance simply defies logic and reason which is the ultimate deciding factor in right/wrong correct/incorrect.

And you are on the incorrect/wrong side of this.

 

This is not about ownership (juridics) either, but still about biology.

 

No problem, lets stick to biology then .. biologically the fetus is a form of parasite - which by the way can be of the same species eg. Anglerfish. The fetus/female relationship would come under the form of parasitic symbiosis called commensalism at best and at worst parasitism

Biologically the fertilized ovum contains cells that at no point will be part of the "finished" person, in fact biologically EVERY cell prior to differentiation are exactly the same, they are all clones of the original and each are capable of becoming an individual person .. by the ideology of those who want the unborn to be recognised as persons from conception that means until differentiation there are ~200 persons.

Biologically the fetus cannot feel pain until at least week 24, it simply does not have the necessary connections to the brain to feel pain prior to then.

Biologically the fertilized ovum contains human DNA, so do my skin cells, the presence of human DNA does mean a person exists.

There is no argument be it legal, biology or moral that supports the pro-life ideology.

 

What did Jesus say about abortion?

 

Self-ownership is my religion and I am certain that I am the most hardcore self-ownership thumper out of us all. This is exactly why abortion is such a dilemma for me; does the woman own her body? Of course. Does the fetus own his/her body? Surely.

I am, thereby, also a hardcore supporter of self-defense; should the woman be allowed to defend herself, regarding it is not too invalid viewing the fetus as an intruder? Of course. Since it also very much valid to regard the unborn fetus as an innocent, little baby that has no power of defending itself, it is also wrong for the woman to use violence against it.

The fetus can be seen both as hostage and as intruder.

It is way too complex of an issue for me to take a clear stance on.

 

Still waiting for you to show how the female "forces" the fetus in to that position, you may sit and claim some sort of objective truth but as yet you are just pissing in the wind with not a single piece of evidence to support a thing you say, and obviously you did not read what was provided to do so would render your so called objective truth in ruins.

 

By consenting to sex she is consenting to being impregnated therefore she forced the baby in that position as the baby cannot be reasonable expected to have a say in the matter. Shouldn't really need explaining as any reasonable logical person would have been able to follow that evidence to its only natural and therefore objective conclusion.

 

There is no logic in anything you have stated, it is all based on your own preconceived opinions with not a single piece of evidence to support it.
You dance around the faults of your own argument by evading anything and everything that questions it.
Your opinion has been dealt with and shown to be not only wrong but absent of any reality, you of course may sit in objective denial of that reality, there simply is no obligation for any person to sustain the life of another regardless of the circumstances, the fact that you ignore THAT objective truth shows me that you are only interested in your own ollogival position regardless of how flawed it is.

I have no idea what planet you have come from to assert that consenting to a risk is consenting to be injured by another person .. it certainly isn't earth .. by what stretch of the imagination is one person "morally or legally bound" to sustain the life of another?

from where does this objective truth of yours come, who or what decided it was an objective truth . .was it you, if so then it is not objective at all. It is merely your belief that a woman consenting to sexual intercourse is obligated to the fetus and as soon as you engage belief then your "objective truth" is not longer objective .. it is subjective.

 

If you do not want children you can choose to either abstain from sex or to use protection. Now before FoxHastings goes full "Muh YOU are not in the position of telling ANOTHER WOMAN what to do with HER body"-mode, I will point out the obvious that is I never used the word "force" anywhere. I am just trying to "make the case" by advocating for less promisciousity and more responsibility and I am not even a Feminist!

Inb4 Foxie loses it and goes full "That has NEVER worked. It is not YOUR body."

 

What I said is 100 percent logical, therefore objectively true

 

I always ask.....where is this model country that has the "right" abortion laws? Choose from any on the planet please.

 

1. Every pregnancy may present serious health risks to the woman.

Why do you assume YOU should be able to rule on what health risks a woman must take? YOU do NOT own pregnant women, why do you think you do?

2. That again is up to the woman. Who are YOU to rule on that??

And if the scan showed that the subsequent baby would be born in to terrible poverty with parents who didn't want it you'd be just fine with that!???

Why?

Do you hate kids but like fetuses?

- - - Updated - - -

He didn't.....and Jesus will never be pregnant so I don't care anyway

 

Then I would suggest you have a very limited knowledge of what words mean, the fertilized ovum is independent of any influence, the female does not "force" the sperm to fertilize the ovum, the female does not "force" the ovum to implant .. in fact if the females immunity was not suppressed by the ovum it would "force" it to be killed and either absorbed or shed from the womb . .so by your own so called logic it is the fetus that forces the female to remain in a pregnant state by forcing her immune system to not respond to what is after all an invasion into her body.

force implies coercion or compulsion, neither of which you can support in your claim.

Your whole premise rests on your own belief that consenting to sexual intercourse is consenting to pregnancy, and your premise is false . it cannot be an objective truth because it is based on your belief and nothing more. It is my belief that consenting to sex is not consenting pregnancy and based on your own so called logic I claim that to be an objective truth . .so prove me wrong

 

Guess you forgot your own title ...."""Abortion- "It is her body!" But is it? ""

 

It's based on logic. Nothing more. And logic is what we should follow.

 

So no one on the planet follows this "logic".....interesting. Why is that?

 

More semamtics, so your suggestion is simply wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Plenty do, a few choice people do not. A problem, but very fixable.

 

Please name them.....I would love to examine these model countries.

 

It really isn't that complex, medically and legally it is the fetus that instigates and maintains pregnancy, it is the fetus that creates and causes injuries to the female .. if the females local immune response were not suppressed her body would react to the presence of what is after all a foreign body and eject/kill it. This is akin to a person being rendered unable to defend themselves by another person.

 

I was referring to people which is what you said. You moved the goal post lol. But why this fixation on what others do? Why not follow reason and logic? Which is what my argument is based off of.

- - - Updated - - -

More strawmen that have been promptly defeated lolol.

 

This is my original goalpost

I always ask.....where is this model country that has the "right" abortion laws? Choose from any on the planet please.

 

Very true .. now if only comprehensive sex education and free at source contraception of all types were not being obstructed by the same people who want elective abortion made illegal, to me it seems counter constructive to ban elective abortion and remove the very things that would reduce unplanned pregnancies and thus abortions.

 

And to answer your question I want to know which countries are the most logical