Practical Firearms Discussion: The Rifle For Emergencies.

I never saw anybody cave just because of an unexpected failure when their life was on the line.

 

Sorry, but that's not factual. Law enforcement gave up revolvers because they abjectly failed to properly train their officers in proper combat shooting, and did not motivate them to keep up what training they did have. In the 1980's, partially fed by the fictional exploits of cops in shows like "Miami Vice", people developed the perception that cops were "out-gunned". They weren't "outgunned" they were "undertrained", and the bureaucrats decided to try and make up for that lack of training by handing them autos they didn't know how to handle. Now officers were missing their targets 15 times instead of just 6 times, and stray rounds wreaked havoc in large cities like New York; where police even today have an atrocious hit ratio in gun fights. All switching to autos did for most of them was enable them to fill the air with more lead.

You know, I have a lot of respect for you and the way you express yourself about some things; but this statement is as frivolous as they get.

I knew a number of men, from my grandfather and his peers to officers who served through the '80's, who had seen a greater number of gunfights than more famous gunslingers of old. I could tell you about one man, armed with a revolver, facing two bad guys who opened fire on him when he came to arrest them. Between them, the two bad guys fired 16 rounds... and the man with the revolver - a man who had seen fights aplenty - fired twice. The good guy suffered a couple of bullet burns and one wound low on his hip. Both bad guys died where they stood.

Then there was the guy in South America who saw a gunfight in Brazil. He watched one guy pull a Taurus 15 shot 9mm on another... and his Taurus malfunctioned. The man he was trying to kill pulled out a .38 revolver... that functioned properly.

In the end, it's the man holding the gun who is the difference, more than the weapon he holds. Revolvers bring some advantages (and disadvantages) to the fight, semi-autos bring others. A hard man with a revolver can and will acquit himself just fine. If you don't like revolvers, that's cool; no one is telling you that you have to use them. But dismiss their utility at your own peril.

 

Oh, PLEASE tell me you're joking!!

The Desert Eagle is oversized, clunky, and utterly unreliable compared to a properly set up revolver. Their ergonomics suck, and they point about as naturally as a brick.

 

I have, and having your life on the line makes the likelihood you're going to "cave" much greater. I watched a guy stop dead and stare goggle-eyed at his sidearm when he suffered a failure to eject. When someone has inadequate training, and something goes wrong they didn't anticipate, they will freeze in place as their brain struggles to figure out what to do. There's a reason why serious instructors train students in immediate action drills should their defensive firearm fail in the middle of a fight. A simple malfunction clearance drill would have gotten this guy's weapon running, but he hadn't practiced enough to make it second nature. When his gun stuttered, so did he. Fortunately another agent shoved him out of the line of fire before he could suffer serious injury.

 

You mean you watched him instead of eliminating the threat to his life? Must not have been much of a threat.

I guess if you operate with amateurs maybe. If you have to practice what to do with your firearm when it malfunctions you haven't got much experience. I suggest these people spend less time with their wing ding instructors and more time getting experience.

 

Like when Hillary lost and Democrats not having a back up caved and became inflicted with TDS ?

 

More like when the not real Republicans caved, nominated, then elected bone spur, never saw a porn star I didn't like, Trump.

 

The full size eagles are awful, the baby eagles (jericho) don't suffer from any of those deficiencies.
Mine eats cheap nasty reloads all day, hasn't jammed once. (IWI Full size full steel). When its normal combat pistol size instead of ridiculous chunk, it points just fine. Stock sights need glow paint at the least though, preferably replace them.

 

Really? Were you there? Kind of hard to engage a bad guy when there's a concrete building in the way, and by the time I reached the corner where I could engage the shooter the guy with the malfunction had been shoved out of the line of fire by the other agent and the assailant switched his focus to me. Don't get self-righteous when you don't know what you're talking about.

Oh, sweet merciful crap. Firearms manipulation is a perishable skill; if you don't practice, you lose it, especially when in the grip of adrenaline. I still remember being at a recertification when the Border Patrol was transitioning from the Beretta 96D to the HK P2000, and a highly "experienced" agent was hitting all over the target due to his clumsy, unpracticed gun handling. When the instructor tried to tell him what he was doing wrong, he blew the instructor off and actually claimed the problem was "the sights are off." I read your above comment and I can see that "experienced" agent's face plain as day.

 

Yeah, the "Baby" Eagles are CZ-75 clones, and as such are pretty good guns. The full size Desert Eagle has zero real-world utility; it's a gun for action movie wannabes.

 

When I used the term ‘cave’, I could just as easily used the term ‘freeze’. I have observed this reaction not just with firearms, but in many activities when the unexpected happens. Under high stress in competition, or an actual fight that ‘freeze’ seems to be the result of a cognitive moment of interruption and indecision... the WTF just happened moment. It can be debilitating under stress, or can also result in an overflow, 0-90, flood of stress level, adrenaline, and cognitive panic.
When I was very young, I noticed that I seemed to be able to react in emergencies... assess, scan my mind for options, and act where many around me froze or ran. That may have been the result in being continually subjected to high stress resulting from being raised in an area of constant conflict. Very early I seemed to be able to organize a strategy to solve problems rapidly for instance, if I had a gun jam in a fight, I would immediately prioritize buying time (if needed, to seek cover) so I could assess and correct a problem. The more I trained, the more rapid I became at assessment and a executing range rapid actions to resolve an issue.
When I learned to fly my instructor described a term, ‘pilot overload’ that described this cognitive overload ‘freeze’. In the beginning it was difficult to fly, navigate, communicate, and orient at the same time. But, after gaining experience and going through more extensive emergency training than normal ( I purposely paid for extra emergency training), I found it to be second nature to be situationally aware and to rapidly assess issues (I have had in air emergencies). On thing my instructor did early on was set up an emergency drill and then continually ask me unrelated questions demanding answers or yell at me while I was going through the drills to purposely distract me. It was a good strategy, I was eventually able to initially tune him out and address the situation and ultimately developed the ability to casually respond while resolving the emergency.
At some point, I realized, the ability to address the unexpected was transferable from one activity to another. Overcoming the adrenaline rush of the unexpected seems to be a skill in itself. For instance, I noticed in my force on force classes, those that competed in any activity, seemed to do better with the unexpected (induced failures or other events) than those just learning failure resolution drills. Similarly, when I have taught failure resolution drills to those in my firearms classes, I found simple instruction, videos, etc. less effective than covertly setting up failures for a student to encounter during training, finding that experience worked better than simple instruction. Train with me and a failure can happen anytime.
I believe the more you are subjected to high levels of stress and adrenaline in any activity, the more you develop the skill to over come it... but knowing what to do is important was well. How do you clear an FTE? How do you recognize and sort a FTF? What do you do if you pull the trigger and you hear a click? ... with a semi, a SA, a DA, etc.
While I am not an advocate of mandated training, I usually advise seeking training and further, seek an instructor or expert that extends training to deal with failures whether it be driving, operating a chain saw, axe, or firearm.

 

Never found one that fit me...an important factor for me.

 

I suppose if you're sitting in a cruiser all day, going home at night to a hot meal, a shower, perhaps a wife, a TV, air conditioning, cold beer, king size bed, it's pretty hard to keep an edge. Under those conditions, you'd probably cave during a tire failure.

http://www.flattireinstrustor.com

 

Thinking upon this more...

"Emergency" must be placed in context of the life I currently live - there's no reason for me to consider the need to defend myself against a bear or tiger, for instance, because I live in the open flatlands of Ohio. Similarly, I need not consider the possibility of hunting elk or moose or wilderbeast for sustenance. I currently live in thinly populated area of a suburb, about 15 miles from the nearest actual city, with direct access to water and fuel, so unless there is an emergency that requires me to move - the long-awaited eruption of the supervolcano under Yellowstone, for instance - I can shelter in place, or nearby.

Thus, any such rifle will be primarily for defense and then for re-supply, all in or around my current location; my primary threat will be predators of the two-legged variety, singly, in small groups, or perhaps packs.

I'll take that AR, please; I'l take it over the SOCOM-16 because of the extra ammo capacity per magazine and unit weight.

 

30 round M14 magazine

 

The GOP has cleaned house and has remade itself many times during its history, Most recently 1962 1968, 1980, 1996 and 2016.

The Democratic party was hijacked by the radical left in 1972 and hasn't cleaned house or remade itself in over 45 years and keeps moving further to the left.

 

And it became faker and faker and faker.

 

Is there a reason for this type of response?

 

There's always a reason for the truth. Why, are you trying to categorize it as usual?

 

Where's the truth in "I suppose if you're sitting in a cruiser all day, going home at night to a hot meal, a shower, perhaps a wife, a TV, air conditioning, cold beer, king size bed, it's pretty hard to keep an edge. Under those conditions, you'd probably cave during a tire failure"

That's just pure snark and off topic.

 

No, what it is is dead on, and over your head. You're the one posting off topic.

 

Don't know how old you are but there was a time when American's weren't labeled as being conservatives or liberals.

You were either a Truman Democrat or Rockefeller Republican or a Nixonite, etc.

 

Probably older than you.

 

Then you should know or remember what significant event that happened that began the Democrat/Republican rivalry.

 

You mean when the Republican party started trying to attract southern Democrats who were disenchanted by the civil rights movement?