Practical Firearms Discussion: The Rifle For Emergencies.

Discussion in 'Firearms and Hunting' started by 6Gunner, Aug 16, 2018.

  1. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    I cannot think of any reason to need anything bigger (or smaller) than a time tested 45ACP.

    If I needed something bigger for any reason I would bring my 12 gauge Mossberg loaded with slugs, which I already do now for my job.
     
  2. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for proving my point about LEO's and semi auto pistols.
     
  3. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    The problem with an AR-15 etc. is that when one of these Stoner abortions jams, you need a flathead screwdriver and a hammer to un-jam it.

    Most people (such as Holmes in Aurora Colorado) do not know this, so they don't carry a flathead screwdriver and a hammer with them at all times when they have their gun.
     
  4. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I've cleared jams without those tools, and indeed SPORTS doesn't have hammer or screwdriver in a single step.
     
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  5. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'd pick the AR. But not for penetration, law enforcement has moved away from shotguns and pistols because the AR generally penetrates less.

    If penetration is the name of the game, something in .308 is a good start.
     
  6. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Speaking of rifles for emergencies, the cost of AR's has plummeted since Trump was elected (oversupply).

    Now is the time to purchase guns and ammo.

    Sometimes democrats get elected, and after 8 years of Trump they aren't going to be any more cuddly than they already are.
     
  7. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    The AR15 platform is not limited to .223 and 5.56. I have 4 uppers, each a different chambering for different purposes.
     
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  8. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very true, the modularity of the AR can't be beat.

    Pistol caliber, 6.5 creed, even 50 cal.

    Lots of flexibility.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  9. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Flexibility and I know the platform will. With any trips into the field, I carry some replacement parts in the handle, and others in my field cleaning kit.
    The other thing I do is make sure I have high quality parts to begin with and only carry ammo and mags I have extensively range tested.
     
  10. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thats a good strategy. I recommend always testing a rifle that has been disassembled or cleaned before trusting it for something as important as an emergency.

    I've never had a part break, but there are a few that are known to break.

    As for lubrication, in an emergency motor oil, transmission fluid, and power steering fluid can be used.
     
  11. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t had any parts break on my AR, but I have had issues resolved by better parts such as extractor, trigger and I have fumbled with pins and springs so I keep a few extras. I have heard of other minor part failures, so I keep a couple extras of those. Same for my 1911, HK and Glock. They all have upgraded parts but I keep extra screws, springs, etc. the spar parts and tools I take pack light and small, but provide some level of risk mitigation.
    ARs seem to have fewer issues when run wet. I generally found Mobile 1 works well for me and is inexpensive. Always have a supply in the field. I am pretty obsessive with cleaning my guns, I Always clean at the end of the day after use and frequently even when not used for a time.
    One other thing I am particular with is my mags. They have to prove perfectly reliable before I trust them for CC or in the field.
     
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  12. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Shot a DE .50 the other day and its an awkward gun.
     
  13. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, not even close and you are clueless what the Nixon's Southern Strategy was.

    The Democrat/Republican rivalry that continues today began in 1949 when President Truman and Democrats in Congress were blamed by the GOP for allowing China becoming Communist China.

    The GOP would never let up on the Democrats for 16 years.

    During the 1960 Presidential race between Nixon and JFK it was who was who tougher on stopping Communist expansion ? With the help of Cooke County Illinois cemeteries, America went with JFK.

    In 1965 LBJ was so scared that South Vietnam would be over run by the Communist North and he and Democrats would again be blamed for allowing another country fall to communism that LBJ ordered American combat troops into South Vietnam.

    That was the beginning of the Democrat/Republican rivalry.

    Re: Nixon's Southern Strategy

    Why not have the co architect of Nixon's Southern Strategy chime in.

    The Neocons and Nixon’s Southern Strategy

    excerpt:

     
  14. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's why the AR's have become so popular with hunters.

    Ever deer season you are seeing more hunters with AR's.
     
  15. dave8383

    dave8383 Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    [QUOTE="APACHERAT, post: 1069519168, member: 62895
    In 1965 LBJ was so scared that South Vietnam would be over run by the Communist North and he and Democrats would again be blamed for allowing another country fall to communism that LBJ ordered American combat troops into South Vietnam

    That was the beginning of the Democrat/Republican rivalry.[/QUOTE]

    Oh BS. The Democrats had been the party that supported the working class. The blue collar workers. During the 60s the party switched and became the civil rights party, abandoning the blue-collar workers and turning to African Americans, and women's rights. That's the rivalry, and that's still the rivalry today.





    "Negotiating with southerners and living in shadow of JFK

    In the spring and summer of 1965 Johnson was laboring to get through Congress some of the most controversial of his Great Society programs: the Voting Rights Act, federal aid to education, and Medicare, among others.

    Both the education bills and Medicare were civil rights measures in their own right, making federal funding to schools and hospitals dependent on desegregation.

    Johnson, a southerner himself, worked to persuade congressmen and senators from the former Confederacy to acquiesce in, if not actively support, passage of these measures.

    The South was both the most segregationist region of the country and the most hawkish on foreign affairs. Johnson believed he could not ask the region to accept both the demise of Jim Crow and the loss of South Vietnam to the communists.

    Matters were further complicated by the fact that right-wingers led by FBI Director J Edgar Hoover and Alabama governor George Wallace were trying to portray the civil rights sit-ins and demonstrations as communist inspired.

    Furthermore, Johnson was acutely aware that he was JFK’s successor.

    The American commitment to South Vietnam was one of Kennedy’s legacies. Johnson saw no evidence that President Kennedy had intended to deescalate. Johnson had chosen to keep on Kennedy’s foreign policy team – McNamara, Bundy, and Secretary of State Dean Rusk. They were unanimous and vehement in their advice to stay the course in Vietnam (although McNamara would very publicly do a mea culpa years later.)

    The gamble
    LBJ was a nation-builder. The Great Society comprised more than 1,000 pieces of legislation and forever altered the social and political landscape of America.

    Johnson was reluctant to intervene in South East Asia but once strategic and politic exigencies seemd to demand it, he began to develop a not unreasonable vision for the future of South Vietnam, one that helped him stay the course. In thinking about Vietnam, the model LBJ had in mind was South Korea.

    Here was a nation born under the direst of circumstances. After a devastating war with the North (1950-1953) and one of the lowest living standards in the world in 1950, South Korea had by 1963 emerged from military rule and in 1965 was already beginning to see real economic gains. So why couldn’t South Vietnam follow this model?"

    https://theconversation.com/the-choice-lbjs-decision-to-go-to-war-in-vietnam-38410
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  16. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully with an upper other than one for 5.56/.223... not sure how many states would allow that round for deer. I’d prob use my .458 upper for under 100yrd shots, perhaps my Grendel with the right reloads at longer distance, but haven’t hunted deer for a few years.... hell, those about my house don’t run from me, could prob use a lasso.
     
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  17. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    More than I'd expect. It doesn't seem ethical enough for me. However, more caribou are taken with a .22LR each year than any other caliber.

    If I were hunting feral pigs I'd love a .458. For deer your Grendel seems perfect.

    Subscribe.
     
  18. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    I think he means AR10s or the like.
     
  19. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh BS. The Democrats had been the party that supported the working class. The blue collar workers. During the 60s the party switched and became the civil rights party, abandoning the blue-collar workers and turning to African Americans, and women's rights. That's the rivalry, and that's still the rivalry today.





    "Negotiating with southerners and living in shadow of JFK

    In the spring and summer of 1965 Johnson was laboring to get through Congress some of the most controversial of his Great Society programs: the Voting Rights Act, federal aid to education, and Medicare, among others.

    Both the education bills and Medicare were civil rights measures in their own right, making federal funding to schools and hospitals dependent on desegregation.

    Johnson, a southerner himself, worked to persuade congressmen and senators from the former Confederacy to acquiesce in, if not actively support, passage of these measures.

    The South was both the most segregationist region of the country and the most hawkish on foreign affairs. Johnson believed he could not ask the region to accept both the demise of Jim Crow and the loss of South Vietnam to the communists.

    Matters were further complicated by the fact that right-wingers led by FBI Director J Edgar Hoover and Alabama governor George Wallace were trying to portray the civil rights sit-ins and demonstrations as communist inspired.

    Furthermore, Johnson was acutely aware that he was JFK’s successor.

    The American commitment to South Vietnam was one of Kennedy’s legacies. Johnson saw no evidence that President Kennedy had intended to deescalate. Johnson had chosen to keep on Kennedy’s foreign policy team – McNamara, Bundy, and Secretary of State Dean Rusk. They were unanimous and vehement in their advice to stay the course in Vietnam (although McNamara would very publicly do a mea culpa years later.)

    The gamble
    LBJ was a nation-builder. The Great Society comprised more than 1,000 pieces of legislation and forever altered the social and political landscape of America.

    Johnson was reluctant to intervene in South East Asia but once strategic and politic exigencies seemd to demand it, he began to develop a not unreasonable vision for the future of South Vietnam, one that helped him stay the course. In thinking about Vietnam, the model LBJ had in mind was South Korea.

    Here was a nation born under the direst of circumstances. After a devastating war with the North (1950-1953) and one of the lowest living standards in the world in 1950, South Korea had by 1963 emerged from military rule and in 1965 was already beginning to see real economic gains. So why couldn’t South Vietnam follow this model?"

    https://theconversation.com/the-choice-lbjs-decision-to-go-to-war-in-vietnam-38410[/QUOTE]

    What's your point ?

    The Democrat/Republican rivalry began in 1949, who was more anti communist and would do a better job at stopping Communist expansion in the world ?

    From your source that I will comment on.
    The author is Randall Woods, a revisionist historian who is part of the LBJ legacy machine to protect the LBJ legacy or more accurately, rewrite LBJ's legacy.

    Again LBJ was scared if South Vietnam went commie the Democrats would be blamed like they were when China went commie.

    I've only read one of Randall Woods books on LBJ but he never mentions that LBJ micromanaged the Vietnam War from 10,000 miles away in particular the air war (Roaring Thunder) over North Vietnam that LBJ's ROE were so PC it would make Barack Obama blush.

    The Vietnam War could have been won and brought to an end three times before 1973...
    1965 if LBJ hadn't micromanged the war.
    1968 if the American people hadn't been lied too about the Tet Offensive of 68 by the press in particular Walter Cronkite.
    1969 if President Nixon would have done what he wanted to do but had inherited LBJ really stupid war policies.

    I only had to go to the fourth paragraph in the article you linked too.

    China never made it clear but that's what many believed because that's what they were told.
    Many believe since the Chi-Coms intervened during the Korean War they would do the same in Vietnam

    China and Vietnam are natural enemies and always have been.
    When Nixon in 72 did what he wanted to do back in 69, bomb the crap out of North Vietnam the Chi-Coms didn't give a ****.
    The Chi-Coms were never in the business of spreading communism throughout the world.

    The Vietnam War was a Cold War proxy war, USA vs. USSR.
    Sino/Soviet relationships was already strained by 1965.
    In 1972 President Nixon made a bold Cold War geopolitical tactical move by visiting China that drove a wedge between Sino/Soviet relationship for good during the Cold War.
    Nixon was a geopolitical genius.

    Any time a historian when opining on the Vietnam War in particular 1960 to 1965 and doesn't mention SEATO, either they are to young,
    been exposed to revisionist history, can't say "been there,...done that," or were consuming large quantities of drugs during the 60's or are a revisionist.

    One thing that Randall Woods got right, LBJ inherited a mess. JFK's mess.

    In 1963 JFK signed off on regime change in the RVN, a CIA backed military coups to remove the corrupt President Diem from power.
    The military coups backed fired with the murder of President Diem.

    From that day on, the United States owned South Vietnam, it became America's problem and JFK knew it.

    The world watched especially our NATO allies, what will JFK do ?
    If SEATO fails, NATO is likely to fail.

    A couple of weeks later JFK was in Dallas, Texas and met the same fate as President Diem.

    The world watched, what will LBJ do ?
    If SEATO fails, NATO was likely to fail.

    The Democrats got America into a shooting war in South Vietnam and were so incompetent they couldn't win or end the war and went further to backstab the American soldier while they were still on the battlefields of Vietnam.
     
  20. Deltaboy

    Deltaboy Active Member

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  21. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pig hunters seem to be switching over to the AR.

    Wild hogs are a dangerous game, they will go into the attack mode and can rip you apart.

    Don't go pig hunting in Monterey County, Ca.
    The pigs hang out in the garlic fields eating garlic and they taste like garlic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  22. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    That's a feature not a bug ;
     
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  23. dave8383

    dave8383 Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    That's what LBJ wanted you to believe, but it's BS and he knew it. He f***ed up period. He was warned over and over not to get into it Vietnam, but he went ahead anyway, even though he knew we couldn't win, because he was a rootin' tootin' cowboy.


    Again, the legacy of the battle between Democrats and Republicans is who supports the working man? The Democrats did, they dropped the ball, Republicans picked it up and here we are with Trump in the White House claiming to be pro American worker. Of course he's nothing but a crook, but hey all the fake Republicans, who used to be Democrats, fell for him.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
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  24. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    Well said! In the end the person behind the gun is the key factor. There are those who are faced with stress situations and freeze (or "cave"), and there are others who remain icy calm, efficient, and ruthless with dealing with those situations because they know they need to be. I have been fortunate thus far to have been one of the latter. But then, I was fortunate enough to have had my training begun early by my grandfather; who understood the realities of life and death confrontations, and wanted to see me equipped to handle the world as it is, not how too many wish it to be.
     
  25. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    Not hard to keep an edge at all. One just needs to have proper training, and the willingness to practice proper technique and to challenge themselves in their training. It's like physical fitness, where you challenge your body to keep it strong and get stronger. In martial arts you regularly follow your kata to make the movements of the art smooth and automatic, and the martial use of the firearm is no different.

    If someone achieves a high level of proficiency, with anything, only to sit back and rest on their laurels figuring they've learned everything they need to know... they will find themselves fall apart when challenged, because as soon as you stop training and practicing you will lose that "edge" in short order.
     
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