Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Context would help. What has this to do with Christianity?

 

This has everything to do with Christianity .. as one's conduct impacts one's salvation.. you need to be more righteous than the Pharisees and law-givers .. which is not a high bar .. as Jesus hated these folks .. but .. you have to do something .. Jesus says any sin can be forgiven (sans the one unforgivable sin) .. but doesn't state that it will be forgiven ... and gives a number of examples of one's that are not forgiven.

But .. we are not interested in those sin's .. as we already have the answer from the horses mouth.

I want to know the answer to this question .. Is it a sin to kill children for the sins of their parents .. or is just fine .. one will still be considered righteous in the eyes of the lord .. be able to pass through Judgement unscathed.

 

He is a character in the Holy Bible so he existed in my Christian view but yeah I understand your view, you being a former Christian but now an agnostic straddling the fence as they say so at the present you have doubts as to whether if he ever existed.

But anyhoot before I bring up Jonah's Prayer let me present a prelude/content of the Book of Jonah from the NLT Bible so to get a glimpse of the story for those not familiar with it.

The Book of Jonah

The author was Jonah, written between 785 and 760 B.C.

If you were given an assignment to preach the gospel to a band of convicted killers, would you do it? This is similar to the assignment God gave to Jonah. Jonah was a prophet born in Israel (see 2 Kings 14:25) and called by God to preach to the people of Nineveh, the capital city of Assyria. Not only was Assyria the most powerful empire in that day, it was also ruthlessly violent with its conquered enemies. Israel was soon to enter Assyria's path of destruction, and so it is unlikely many Israelites would have accepted Jonah's task. The book of Jonah relates how he first tried to flee his calling and travel by ship to another country. But God sent a storm to change his plans; Jonah was thrown overboard, and a giant fish swallowed him and saved him from drowning. The fish then spewed Jonah onto the shore, and Jonah went to Assyria. To Jonah's dismay, the king and citizens of Nineveh heard his message and repented, and so God spared them from their promised destruction. In anger, Jonah went outside the city, still hoping it would be destroyed. God rebuked Jonah, however, and expressed his desire that all people, Jews and Gentiles alike, come to know him.

Now below is Jonah's Prayer to the Lord after being swallowed by a giant fish.

We Read in Scripture:

Jonah’s Prayer

2 Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from inside the fish. 2 He said,
“I cried out to the Lord in my great trouble,
and he answered me.
I called to you from the land of the dead,
and Lord, you heard me!
3 You threw me into the ocean depths,
and I sank down to the heart of the sea.
The mighty waters engulfed me;
I was buried beneath your wild and stormy waves.
4 Then I said, ‘O Lord, you have driven me from your presence.
Yet I will look once more toward your holy Temple.’
5 “I sank beneath the waves,
and the waters closed over me.
Seaweed wrapped itself around my head.
6 I sank down to the very roots of the mountains.
I was imprisoned in the earth,
whose gates lock shut forever.
But you, O Lord my God,
snatched me from the jaws of death!
7 As my life was slipping away,
I remembered the Lord.
And my earnest prayer went out to you
in your holy Temple.
8 Those who worship false gods
turn their backs on all God’s mercies.
9 But I will offer sacrifices to you with songs of praise,
and I will fulfill all my vows.
For my salvation comes from the Lord alone.”
10 Then the Lord ordered the fish to spit Jonah out onto the beach. Jonah 2:1-10 NLT

This story I accept it to be a literal account, a true life experience of the Prophet Jonah. My view is that Jonah remained alive for 3 days in the belly of a giant fish. Others who also accept it as a literal account take another view in that Jonah died and later returned to life.

But either interpretation is possible but the traditional understanding is that Jonah was alive for 3 days while in the belly of a giant fish is more likely because he prayed to the Lord from inside the giant fish (verse 1).

And Our Creator Almighty God displayed His supernatural ability to rescue His Prophet Jonah.

Just goes to show, there is nothing impossible for Our Creator Almighty God to do, nothing that is contrary to His own character and nature that is.

We Read in Scripture:

27 Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But not with God. Everything is possible with God.” Mark 10:27 NLT

The Prophet Jonah, who everyone thought was a “goner,” emerged from the ocean depths to bring God’s message of salvation to a lost and dying people.

In so doing, he became a wonderful representation of Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ's death, resurrection, and life-giving message.

 

Again, that is an odd question. In what context do you ask it. Or are you trying to make a statement. If you prefer to hide the context of your question to between you and God, then I suggest you ask him and not me. But if you are trying to make a statement, then stop beating around the bush and say it.

 

The Context is the various laws in scripture .. you are the one beating around bush .. you stated you could get answers to questions from God .. this is a legitimate question .. from Scripture .. What other context would you like .. YHWH gave a law saying children are not to be killed for the sins of their parents .. Is this correct .. or should we abide by the other law given by YHWH saying that we must kill children for the sins of their parents. .. clearly a scriptural confusion that needs clearing up.

 

I have no familiarity with either of these matters. So my faith and trust in God does not hinge upon them in any fashion. Therefore they are not germane to my salvation. Neither am I a juggler of scripture, nor do I hover for the want of a place to settle. God has established me now and while I live, rather than stirred and discomfited in the past intrigue of a long ago tribe under his eyes. Perhaps then his words are sometimes applicable to the men and times in which they live. And at other times or in other places his words are to prepare all men of all times for eternity and salvation rather than the secular and transitory station in which they happen to be. I am confident that the God of the old and new testament is one and the same. So my advice would be to set aside any confusion, and follow Jesus's doctrines in application and engagement to this life as one is able. In essence it is simply to be a good person rather than to go around bellowing scriptures and cursing that which displeases you. There is only one Savior. Oh and btw, this is MittRyan's topic. So maybe he can more appropriately answer your question as he is far more knowledgeable of scriptures.

 

Your lack of familiarity has no bearing on the issue .. if you had the answer to the question .. we would not need to ask God. Nor is your faith an issue ..

Your claim that the question was not germain to your salvation is false - as you could not possibly know this .. without asking God..

So ask God por favor .. should we be killing children for the sins of their parents .. as is suggested in the Bible .. or should we not be killing children for the sins of their parents .. as suggested in the Bible.

If you do not think going out and killing children, babies, fetuses - has any effect on your salvation .. Great .. but that answer needs to come from God .. not from you .. to have any validity .. and it is not your opinion on the issue I am after .. it is God's opinion .. which you have claimed defacto to know .. and be able to obtain at will ..

I agree and believe that it is God's will for us "to be a good person/people" .. but that is my belief .. not what I can claim for a fact is God's will .. because "God told me so"

I think you are treading on thin ice here mate ..

 

Exactly what, are you trying to prove? Not the petty irrelevant details but the nutshell of your condescending arguments?

 

Sorry but I really don't need to take advice from a former Christian who is now an agnostic. I have learned what is real and what is not by proper interpretation of Scripture through Christian teaching. The interpretation of the OT through Christian teaching is obviously the right interpretation something you are not in agreement with which partly explains why you're an ex Christian.

Too bad you didn't get it right, you're just like the Pharisees who didn't get it right. Their own Sacred Book told them about the coming Messiah (over 300 Messianic Prophecies in the OT) but when He came they failed to recognize Him. Which implies they did not interpret their own Sacred Book correctly.

Well yeah it makes sense that you being an ex will not totally agree with a Christian's viewpoints.

Obviously you didn't study the Bible the right way over the many years you put into it, I mean if you had studied it the right way and not be influenced by negative forces you would have still been a practicing Christian. But no, you followed the same footsteps as those Pharisees took who didn't recognize the Messiah when He appeared in their presence.

We learn through reading the Gospels in the New Testament that the Pharisees were often presented as hypocritical and proud opponents of Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ.

Our Lord stated it bluntly that they do not practice what they preach.

We Read in Scripture:

Jesus Criticizes the Religious Leaders

23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses. 3 So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach. 4 They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden. Matthew 23:1-4 NLT

 

You play fast and loose with the truth. I don't. Do you think you can misrepresent my own words to my face and it reflect upon me? LOL! Don't be absurd. Salvation is built in the low place, not snatched from on high. You want to know all things before believing, live in a house without building it, and eat without first preparing. Dream on dreamer. Ain't gonna happen. Building contention isn't the pathway to peace. If you want to be certain of a thing, that it comes from God, then ask him for the cause of certainty. If he doesn't answer, then you will have to live with that as his answer in certainty. And that is my answer to you. Comprende?

 

Don't let them drag you down, brother; that is their intention.

A'ho

 

You are condescending one .. jumping into a conversation crying "what are you trying to prove" "your condescending" .. What has your curls in a furl mate .. can't handle "Tough Questions" ?

 

I didn't misrepresent anything you said .. nor play false and loose with the Truth ... you then fo on to make a bunch of other nonsense accusations .. crying "That is my answer"

You claimed to be able to get answers to questions from God - and now you are mad because I asked a "Tough Question" - for you to get God to answer .. and for some reason you don't want to do this .. likely because you really don't have God at your beckon call.. and/or the question scares the heck out of you.

You then go on to make claims about salvation .. things you can't possibly know - as you are not able to ask God directly

You then make claims about my belief that you are know are false .. as I have told you I believe in God .. but because my beliefs are slightly different than yours .. you resort to the classic cult member tactic "Demonization of the Other"

Is that about it ?

 

Which God? Is He the Christian God or a made up one of your own liking, or are you just lying about believing in God? The way you have been carrying on here on my threads for quite a long while now it's obvious to me it's either your god is a made up god of your own liking, or you're just flat out lying about believing in God.

Believers of the Christian God normally do not have arguments with other believers in their own faith least not here on my threads anyway.

You're the only one who professes He believes in God but yet have continuous arguments/debates with Christians.

Your posts have more likes from unbelievers than they do from believers because those unbelievers can smell one of their own...lol

Now respond back to me with all your silly nonsensical remarks...I'll be waiting to just ignore them all...lol

But hey if you have a legit coherent tough question regarding Christianity aside from all the nonsensical remarks I'm prepared to see from you, you can bet your bottom boots I will do my best to answer it.

 

Your supposed question sounds to me more like a veiled condemnation of Christianity, filled with bitterness and distortion. As such, it is a proclamation rejecting God the Father, his only begotten Son, and the plan of salvation. You should have stated as much many posts ago, rather than the pretense of sincerity in as many bread crumbs dropped. And spared me my time and energies. If Gods answer to you is silence, then who am I to presume to circumvent him.

 

Correction: I had the wrong code for gift's post but it is corrected here. And my response is still the same as in #139.

 

Did you see the title of this OP ? "Tough Questions" -- and don't confuse your inability to deal with this question .. with condemnation of all Christianity -- rather than condemnation of the Fundamentalist / Literalist --which comes not from me .. but from being caught in their own web of self deception .

You started out claiming to be able to communicate directly with God -- have questions answered .. now - when asked a relatively simple but tough question .. you run away crying "God's answer to you is silence then who am i to circumvent" a laughably circular response .. such that you never have to prove your claim .. and thus be exposed -as not really having a direct conduit to God.

You then state of my question "it is a proclamation rejecting God the Father , his only begotten Son and the plan of salvation"

How is asking for clarification of two conflicting laws from God in the Bible .. a rejection of God or Jesus This preposterous absurdity - a veiled and desperate attempt to demonize the messenger -- cause you can't handle the question - just how cult adherents under sophisticated mind control techniques are trained to do .. Not that you are a cult member .. but, this is aone of the common "Thought stopping" techniques.

You claim not to pay much attention to scripture but this one you might find useful ..

A house based on faith alone - is not a solid foundation .. thus sayeth the Lord
Running from tough questions and engaging in deception and false accusations .. is not the basis of a solid foundation .. thats the "Bad Fruit"

I ask you about the plan for salvation -- you have no answer -- no specifics. I ask if killing babies for the sins of their parents would harm one's chances for salvation .. you have no answer.. like a leaf going where-ever the wind blows it .. no foundation to hold it in place.

Now you can complain.

 

Every God is "Made up" - at least to some degree. Your version of God is different from the person sitting next to you in the pew .. though you belong to the same Church.

What I don't do is go around pretending that I know my story about God is correct like you do --- what I don't do is put words in the mouth fo God like you do .. putting forth man made dogma as defacto God's word - like you do.

Preposterously false . .. but what is your point ? I see you arguing all the time. Everytime someone says something that coflicts with the man made dogma you learned on the Got Question snake charmer site .. you characterize debate as an argument .

You're the only one who professes He believes in God but yet have continuous arguments/debates with Christians.

What a crock -- you run tough questions .. run from scripture that does not jive with the prognostications of your Sola Fide Idol.

Here is the last question you ran from. Jesus states the following at the end of the Sermon on the mount.

" 24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” "
Since you claim to know the mind of God - what are these words that we are supposed to put into practice - in order to get into heaven.

 

What are you talking about. You have either ignored or misrepresented most everything I've said to you in order for you to advance your opinion that God is either evil or double minded. As such you postpone your own salvation, not mine. You can believe or build whatever you seek thru scripture. I know that God lives. I trust in him for who he is, which is divine and good, far more than what scriptures say or words convey. Nothing you have said can disrupt my testimony because it comes from God himself. I am satisfied. Like I said, whatever discrepancies you find or that trouble you in scripture does not trouble me or my trust in him. Clearly you misunderstand scriptures or you would not think that God tells you to murder children on one hand and then not to murder them on the other. Maybe you are taking things out of context to justify your unwillingness to comport to the requirements of your own commitment to salvation. But that's on you. You shouldn't blame God or me for your greater love of other than he. I think you're a good person G-O., and very smart. But you are simply taking the wrong tack on this.

 

Do you personally find my belief in Eventual Universal Salvation offensive or contradictory to your own personal beliefs on the hidden meaning in the Christian and Jewish scriptures?




http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/is-god-the-great-gamer.593992/page-4#post-1073059262

Is God the Great Gamer?

 

What a pile of decietful falsehood.. What the Bible says is not "my opinion" .. That you can't deal with what scripture states .. does not make scripture my opinion. I have not misrepresented you in any way .. You said you get answers form God .. I said Great . .and asked you to get an answer to a tough Biblical Question ..

Sorry you didn't like the question . but scripture says what scripture says

How does me telling you what scripture says .. postponing my salvation .. what kind of mindless nonsense is this ? It is not my fault scripture says what it says .

So your "testimony" everything you say related to "Salvation" comes from God himself - but you won't answer questions related to salvation or state how one achieves salvation.

Vunderbar

 

This conversation has run its course. I hope you find what you're looking for, whatever that is.

 

Already found what your looking for.. told you I met the Big Cheese when was around 10 - was the "Most High" who did the asking of questions (well one question) not me asking questions - and unfortunately I do not have this God on speed dial like you do -

I did not get the sense that "God" was some a flip flopping irrational xenophobic genocidal God - with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics .. yet - that is how the God YHWH is depicted in the Bible.

To me this is a concern - so thought you could make a call and sort the matter out - since you continuously declare to have access to mind of God - "Nothing can disrupt my testimony because it comes from God himself."

but, it seems you do not want to testify on this matter .. telling me " you postpone your own salvation" for wanting some clarification on the issue of whether or not we should be killing children babies and fetuses - because they happened to be born in a town where a few folks have taken to worshiping other Gods.

I too hope one day that I am able to clear God's good name .. from all the blasphamies coming out of the fundamentalists and literalists - who give false testimony in the name of God ... claiming this testimony comes directly from the Supreme one.

For in Scripture we Read:

 

Hi Dennis! Very good question my friend. Let me begin by saying I know there are many people who hold the belief that everyone will be saved eventually as this universal salvation suggests.

But as we read in Scripture we find that the Scriptures do teach that some people will spend eternity in hell. There is no hidden meaning in the Christian scriptures, it's undeniably telling us this.

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ's own words gives confirmation that the time spent in heaven for the redeemed (saved) will last as long as that of the unredeemed (unsaved) in hell.

We Read in Scripture:

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.” Matthew 25:46 NLT

So the Holy Bible is perfectly clear in that the unredeemed (unsaved) will dwell forever in hell and the redeemed (saved) will dwell forever in heaven.

I know there are people who believe that those in hell will eventually cease to exist, I was one of them that held this belief but I don't believe that anymore because of what is written in the Scriptures that I wasn't aware of in the past very early in my Christian life. Our Lord Himself confirms that it will last forever in "eternal fire" "unquenchable fire".

We Read in Scripture:

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

41 “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. Matthew 25:41 NLT

43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. Mark 9:43 ESV

The only way to avoid this "eternal doom" is to come to Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ and don't be led astray to falsely believe like many other people do in that all roads, all religions and beliefs lead to heaven.

Christianity teaches there is only one way, one path that leads to eternal life.

Our Creator Almighty God because of His full love and mercy sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to earth, to shed His innocent sinless blood to die on the cross for us.

There is one God and one mediator between God and men, that mediator being Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ.

We Read in Scripture:

12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12 ESV

5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 1 Timothy 2:5 ESV

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. John 14:6 NLT

16 “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 NLT

18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. John 3:18 NLT

36 And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.” John 3:36 NLT

So the choice is ours to make, anyone who chooses to reject God's Son, Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ they will not be saved for they do not meet the requirements for salvation.

So everything I have presented from the Scriptures here, it becomes perfectly clear that universal salvation are unbiblical beliefs and it definitely contradicts what the Scripture teaches us. These verses I have presented in Matthew 25:46, 47, Mark 9:43, John 3:16, 18, and John 14:6 are the words of Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ Himself and so you can either accept them or reject them.

So if people do not want to face up to their sin and admit that they need Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ to save them then they will reject the message.

But for anyone who believes in universal salvation to say that those who reject God’s provision of salvation through His Son will be saved is to belittle the holiness and justice of Our Creator Almighty God and negate the need of Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf.

So I hope I adequately answered your question Dennis, oh and thanks for asking it my friend!

 

You gave a good answer to this challenging and troubling question.....

Like you once believed I also once believed in cessation at some point.... but now I do believe that the human spirit is eternal and does not die.

I do agree with you that accepting the sacrifice of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus on our behalf to pay for our sins is easy to do....... and I found that my emotions and health were benefited almost immediately as I began to learn to pray and ask for guidance by the Holy Spirit.

I believe in the increase and further increase and further increase of the kingdom of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus, ( which I sure hope means that heaven eventually invades hell), ....... and what is happening on this earth at this time makes me wonder in what ways the kingdom under the earth can also be benefited over the long term????

"Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this
(Isaiah 9:7)