Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

1. Any despicable thing is ok when God says to do it? Is there anything at all you would refuse to do if God commanded it? Do you have any morality aside from obedience to God? Or do you equate morality to obedience to power, ultimate power being God?

2. Why did God stop being so murderous, cruel and bloodthirsty? Is that because of Jesus?

3. Amazing that you recognize this of now but can't see it of then. Though I will say I am surprised you didn't tell us you hear God talking to you. So you acknowledge that prayer is a one way conversation?

Paragraph 3 eases some of my terror about paragraph 1 from you. If you did think God could could still talk to you, as a voice in your head, you would be very dangerous if you also equate obedience to morality.

Finally, I recognize that my words above may come across harsh, and I apologize for that, but I don't know how to soften them. I am genuinely concerned about the authoritarianism inherent in religion.

 

Need I only convince you that God wishes it, to get you to fly a plane into a skyscraper?

 

You got it all wrong Gift. Scripture from the Apostle Paul is not nonsense. The Apostle Paul is another one of God's many prophets. All Scripture is inspired by God. All the authors/writers of the Bible which of course includes the Apostle Paul were inspired by God to write down what they wrote. No prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet's own understanding or human initiative, no, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.

We Read in Scripture:

20 Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding, 21 or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God. 2 Peter 1:20-21 NLT

16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. 17 God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 NLT

I haven't made any claims that states whatever the Apostle Paul says supersedes what the Lord says. Calm down Gifted one. Whatever the Apostle Paul says is the message coming from the Lord. Let's not forget the Apostle Paul is a messenger from the Lord.

Furthermore, you are only assuming that Paul never met the Lord Jesus in person during the time of the Lord's ministry. You don't know that for sure, Paul was a Pharisee in Jerusalem, and so it is quite possible that he could have seen or heard the Lord speak during the Lord's several trips to Jerusalem.

But we cannot know for sure one way or the other. So I wouldn't be making a declarative positive statement such as you have.

But we do read in Scripture that Saul had an encounter with the Lord on the Damascus Road sometime after the Lord's resurrection. That was the beginning point of Saul's conversion happening. Paul went by the name of Saul before his conversion. Before Saul's conversion, he persecuted followers of the Lord, he hated them with a great disdain. Saul was on his way to Damascus with a letter from the high priest of the temple in Jerusalem giving authority to him to arrest anyone who were followers of the Lord. Saul truly hated the Lord and anyone associated with Him.

Let me now present Scripture that tells us about Saul's Conversion.

We Read in Scripture:

Saul’s Conversion

9 Meanwhile, Saul was uttering threats with every breath and was eager to kill the Lord’s followers.[a] So he went to the high priest. 2 He requested letters addressed to the synagogues in Damascus, asking for their cooperation in the arrest of any followers of the Way he found there. He wanted to bring them—both men and women—back to Jerusalem in chains.

3 As he was approaching Damascus on this mission, a light from heaven suddenly shone down around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul! Saul! Why are you persecuting me?”

5 “Who are you, lord?” Saul asked.

And the voice replied, “I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting! 6 Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

7 The men with Saul stood speechless, for they heard the sound of someone’s voice but saw no one! 8 Saul picked himself up off the ground, but when he opened his eyes he was blind. So his companions led him by the hand to Damascus. 9 He remained there blind for three days and did not eat or drink.

10 Now there was a believer in Damascus named Ananias. The Lord spoke to him in a vision, calling, “Ananias!”

“Yes, Lord!” he replied.

11 The Lord said, “Go over to Straight Street, to the house of Judas. When you get there, ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul. He is praying to me right now. 12 I have shown him a vision of a man named Ananias coming in and laying hands on him so he can see again.”

13 “But Lord,” exclaimed Ananias, “I’ve heard many people talk about the terrible things this man has done to the believers[c] in Jerusalem! 14 And he is authorized by the leading priests to arrest everyone who calls upon your name.”

15 But the Lord said, “Go, for Saul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel. 16 And I will show him how much he must suffer for my name’s sake.”

17 So Ananias went and found Saul. He laid his hands on him and said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road, has sent me so that you might regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Instantly something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he got up and was baptized. 19 Afterward he ate some food and regained his strength. Acts 9:1-19 NLT

I agree, but your madness can only end when you start to interpret Scripture correctly, until then everything you say will only be unbiblical madness.

How can the Apostle Paul contradict the Lord when he is a messenger of the Lord? That doesn't make sense Gift. We are told by the Lord that Saul was His chosen instrument to take His message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel.

We Read in Scripture:

15 But the Lord said, “Go, for Saul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel. 16 And I will show him how much he must suffer for my name’s sake.” Acts 9:15-16 NLT

Ok Gift thanks for your post.

 

Inspired by which God Mitt .. what is the name of this God has you so inspired .. keep asking and you keep avoiding. Why are you so ashamed of this God ? is it because the God you worship is - the father of all lies and deception .. the Devil himself" ?

And You Brother Todd .. what does the Bible have to say about this strange God that Brother Mitt will not tell us about ? What does the Bible say

 

Has everything to do with Christianity --- how one gets saved mate .. that free pass ideology of yours doesn't cut it.

 

How would you know right from wrong Brother Mitt if you don't know which God that you follow ? -- and specially since your actions suggest you are follower of Lucifer.

 

I don't know. I suppose it depends on who is doing the judging/killing and whether or not it squares with the will of God. The determination then depends on God. As for me, such conduct skirts too near to destruction. And I had rather stay far from such a cliff.

 

This is a year old post. And I have no clue what you mean by "free pass ideology of yours." Jesus Christs life, death, and resurrection gave no one a "free pass." He overcame death and the world and established himself as the Savior and gatekeeper to salvation. He said, "no man cometh unto the Father except by me."

 

If God told you to not believe in him but to do good, would you do it?

 

Why do you continually ask questions that are ignoramus, chowderheaded, biased, full of misconceptions?...I'll tell you why, it's because you've never read the Holy Bible thoroughly with an open mind, never understood the divine nature and character of God, never understood His divine ways, you always held these preconceived, biased, notions about God, spewing out the talking points from the critics who will say anything to try to discredit the perfectly holy, sinless Almighty God.

God does not do things that are despicable, He only does things that are righteous. Punishing evil doers is a righteous act, a righteous thing that God did during the OT days when He punished people for their sins & disobedience. He gave those people 400 years to repent so He was very patient with them but they never did and so God punished them. Below is a past quote of mine saying this:

Anything that God commands is righteous, it is never wrong. For instance the Ten Commandments He has given us, are all righteous commands to do for our own good and benefit.

Just imagine if for just one single day everyone in the world abided by those commandments...what a great, happy, wonderful day that would be for all!

But unfortunately we can't all obey those righteous commands, not even for a single day. I mean individuals here and there can but not the whole kaboodle for a single day.

And that's why there is so much suffering, misery, and pain in the world. We live in a sinful fallen world because we are all sinners. None of us can keep the righteous commands that God gave us in order to live the righteous way, we all have failed, every single last one of us.

That's hilarious, coming from a person that doesn't believe in God. You should ask yourself that question leaving out God in the question because evidently it appears you have no morals. Since you don't believe it was right for God to punish evil doers, then in your mind, doing evil is just a natural thing to do that doesn't need punishing. Live and let live is your motto.

Would you be ok if someone did something really despicable to a family member of yours that is very dear to you, that you love so dearly? I guess you would since you don't believe wrong doing needs to be punished...wow!...shocking! But if on the other hand you're not ok with it then it shows you are unsympathetic to people you don't know, you care only for your own, such hypocrisy!

There you go again, asking questions that are ignoramus, chowderheaded, biased, full of misconceptions? He was never murderous, never cruel, never bloodthirsty ever but He certainly did punish people for their sins & disobedience and rightfully so.

Matter of fact He punishes all of us when we eventually die, since we are all sinners.

We Read in Scripture:

10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is righteous—not even one. Romans 3:10 NLT

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 NLT

What's amazing is you misinterpreting what I've said, when I used language that even a youngster could understand so easily.

Where have I said back in the OT days, the Israelites heard voices in their heads thinking it's God telling them to kill, so they went off to kill?...no where, it's just you misinterpreting.

Obviously in the OT days, God spoke directly to the leaders of the Israelites, Moses for one and Joshua as the other. They weren't hearing voices in their heads but it was God speaking directly to them.

We Read in Scripture:

Moses and the Burning Bush

3 One day Moses was tending the flock of his father-in-law, Jethro,[a] the priest of Midian. He led the flock far into the wilderness and came to Sinai, the mountain of God. 2 There the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the middle of a bush. Moses stared in amazement. Though the bush was engulfed in flames, it didn’t burn up. 3 “This is amazing,” Moses said to himself. “Why isn’t that bush burning up? I must go see it.”

4 When the Lord saw Moses coming to take a closer look, God called to him from the middle of the bush, “Moses! Moses!”
“Here I am!” Moses replied.

5 “Do not come any closer,” the Lord warned. “Take off your sandals, for you are standing on holy ground. 6 I am the God of your father[c]—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” When Moses heard this, he covered his face because he was afraid to look at God.

7 Then the Lord told him, “I have certainly seen the oppression of my people in Egypt. I have heard their cries of distress because of their harsh slave drivers. Yes, I am aware of their suffering. 8 So I have come down to rescue them from the power of the Egyptians and lead them out of Egypt into their own fertile and spacious land. It is a land flowing with milk and honey—the land where the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites now live. 9 Look! The cry of the people of Israel has reached me, and I have seen how harshly the Egyptians abuse them. 10 Now go, for I am sending you to Pharaoh. You must lead my people Israel out of Egypt.”

11 But Moses protested to God, “Who am I to appear before Pharaoh? Who am I to lead the people of Israel out of Egypt?”

12 God answered, “I will be with you. And this is your sign that I am the one who has sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you will worship God at this very mountain.”

13 But Moses protested, “If I go to the people of Israel and tell them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,’ they will ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what should I tell them?”

14 God replied to Moses, “I am who i am.[d] Say this to the people of Israel: I am has sent me to you.” 15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: Yahweh,[e] the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you. Exodus 3:1-15 NLT

The Lord’s Charge to Joshua

1 After the death of Moses the Lord’s servant, the Lord spoke to Joshua son of Nun, Moses’ assistant. He said, 2 “Moses my servant is dead. Therefore, the time has come for you to lead these people, the Israelites, across the Jordan River into the land I am giving them. 3 I promise you what I promised Moses: ‘Wherever you set foot, you will be on land I have given you— 4 from the Negev wilderness in the south to the Lebanon mountains in the north, from the Euphrates River in the east to the Mediterranean Sea[a] in the west, including all the land of the Hittites.’ 5 No one will be able to stand against you as long as you live. For I will be with you as I was with Moses. I will not fail you or abandon you.

6 “Be strong and courageous, for you are the one who will lead these people to possess all the land I swore to their ancestors I would give them. 7 Be strong and very courageous. Be careful to obey all the instructions Moses gave you. Do not deviate from them, turning either to the right or to the left. Then you will be successful in everything you do. 8 Study this Book of Instruction continually. Meditate on it day and night so you will be sure to obey everything written in it. Only then will you prosper and succeed in all you do. 9 This is my command—be strong and courageous! Do not be afraid or discouraged. For the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.” Joshua 1:1-9 NLT

You are surprised? Have you been told by some Christians that they have conversations with God? I doubt they were saying that to you, obviously you misinterpreted what they were telling you. When we pray to God, we are not having conversations with Him, like two ordinary people having a conversation between themselves...lol When we pray to Him we are confident that He hears us whenever we ask for anything that pleases Him.

We Read in Scripture:

14 And we are confident that he hears us whenever we ask for anything that pleases him. 15 And since we know he hears us when we make our requests, we also know that he will give us what we ask for. 1 John 5:14-15 NLT

That's funny. I would feel more terror being around people who don't believe in God. Those are the people you really need to fear the most, ungodly, unlawful people. Lucky you, you didn't come in contact with the atheist Jeffery Dahmer. He would have eaten you for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

No, don't worry about it, I didn't even think you came across as being harsh, so no apologies needed but I did find everything you said as being ignoramus, chowderheaded, biased, full of misconceptions.

Ok jolly good fella thanks for your post.

 

Yes, but not because he said so, but because I already do.

 

Your bible depicts him doing many things that I find despicable, and that I think you would also find despicable if it were anyone other than him doing them or commanding they be done.

You instead declare them good, which is what makes me wonder if your morality is mere obedience to him or if it has any empathy or fairness logic to it.

You believe people lived for 400 years back then? Why don't people live anywhere near that long now? And why do you consider repenting to God to make up for evil deeds to others who aren't God? And also why do you consider vicarious redemption acceptable?

That's what I am asking, yes. Anything he does is good, just, and right... Because he did them or because they are in themselves good, just and right acts. Are you judging these acts based on a moral code or merely based on who does them?

Ah yes, the ten Commandments. The first of course being obey God. The rest containing little moral value aside from don't kill (despite God elsewhere commanding killing) and don't steal (despite God elsewhere commanding plundering and taking of land and women). No rule against slavery or rape. No wisdom such "wash your hands" or "don't poop where you eat".

I have asked you this numerous times now and you never give a direct answer: If he is all powerful isn't that exactly as God wants it? He designed it all after all, and he is perfect, so it must be perfect, right?

And how is you telling a lie connected to a volcano erupting on the other side of the planet? How is your killing somebody connected to parasitic worms that eat unfortunate animals painfully from the inside or diseased children? Is God so upset with you that he sees fit to torture others?

That's the closest you have come to a direct answer, so thank you. Can you fathom morals separate and aside from obedience to power, God being ultimate power? The above hints at no.

Strawman. I didn't write that.

Another strawman. I didn't write that either. I am not ok with wrong being done to anyone by anyone, and that includes wrong done in the name of your God. My morality is based on empathy, fairness, and social contract. Is yours only based on obedience?

For somebody who endlessly quotes from the Bible, are you sure you have actually read it?

Does he though? Don't you get out of your just punishment from him by accepting somebody else dying on a cross for you? Doesn't seem like punishment at all.

...

Except of course when you say that God did exactly that before. Why did he stop? And why is it so ridiculous to you now, but not then.

Belief or not isn't the point. Blind obedience to power is the point. I would feel terror around atheists or theists who are blindly obedient to power.

It's why I asked you if you have any sense of morality aside from obedience to God. Some Christians do. Do you? Would you kill your kids if God told you to? Would you fly a plane into a building?

 

My mistake .. didn't realize was 3 years back but, matters not as we have discussed the subject much more recently.

"Free Pass Idology" - is your belief in salvation by faith alone - that deeds are not required .. taught to you by the Idol Martin Luther you worship.

 

"The determination depends on God" ---- is a ridiculously nonsensical answer .. because we have two conflicting determinations from God in the Bible .. the point of this conversation is for you to tell me which is the correct determination .. since you know the will of God.

So once again .. "According to the God of Abraham" - should we kill children for the sins of their parents or should we not.

 

I'm not bound to tell you anything. I answered your question out of the goodness of my heart. And for that I get feces flung at me. You have a serious attitude problem for a human. And btw, your question is stupid anyway. How about one that makes sense for a change.

 

I'm not Lutheran. I'm LDS. Are you on medication or something?

 

Correct - no one is forcing you to substantiate your absurd and false claims on God's behalf .. which perhaps is why you continue to make them. Asking you to back up what you say however, is not throwing feces at you. The one engaging in throwing feces at a wall hoping something will stick .. is the one with the "Serious attitude problem for a human"

"Question is Stupid" -- There is nothing stupid about asking you for clarification about Bible passages .. It is not my fault that the God you claim to know so well contradicts himself .. the only stupid thing here is not recognizing the contradiction .. and not correcting one's perspective on that basis .. running around crying "Stupid Stupid" - instead of correcting obvious faults in perspective.

 

Then you already do Gods will, and have forgotten him.

 

That's cool, but that's not the sort of blind unquestioning obedience to power that I'm talking about above. If God asked me to fly a plane into a building or kill my children.... I would not.

 

Men do plenty of evil all on their own. The 9/11 terrorists were carrying out Bin Ladens orders, not Gods. And Abrahams situation was unique on many levels, very personal, and recorded for posterity. God stopped Abraham btw. He knew that Abraham loved his Son as much as he loved God. So God made him choose. When the choice was made, he was stopped because the sacrifice or choice had already been made. The moral is to love God more than your own family, not to kill your family as proof. That would be crazy.

 

They thought they were carrying out God's. And from my perspective I have no reason to believe you over them. You both point to text and preachers and neither of you produce actual Gods for me to see.

Yes. God stopped him, and that's great. Too bad he demanded the murderin the first place though. Its like a mobster handing you a gun and telling you to shoot your brother, only to find out it wasn't loaded. An actual MORAL ending to that story would have been Abraham refusing to kill his son, and saying it is wrong, and God then saying very good he passed the test, not to do evil just because authority tells you to. Instead we get the opposite in this story.

Except he DID demand Abraham to kill his family as proof.

And lets not forget, Abraham isn't the only person God told to kill others. God ordered his people to whipe out other tribes and spare none of the men, and to "take the women for themselves"... as property? To rape?

Obedience itself is not morality. Do you agree? Mitt always avoids this question. He won't answer if he'd fly that plane into that building or kill his son if God told him to.

 

LDS is not "Sola Fide" ? Sure sounds like that is what you have been preaching .. and all protestants do the Sola Fide thing .. not just the Lutherans ... think you better check your doctrine channel .. you sure your not of the "Faith Alone" crowd ? .. deeds not required ?

. but .. speaking of "medication" who is the one claiming to know God here ... ? isn't me.

 

Who made that claim? It certainly wasn't me. You must be doing what you do best...misinterpreting again.

But anyway if you or anyone else for that matter kills a pregnant woman it would be considered a double homicide in 30 + states. So that's more than half of the country. Needless to say you'll be in big trouble Gift, so get that out of your head. Normally when people want an unborn aborted they do not murder the mother too in the process, the mother's life is spared...that's an abortion Gift. In my view it is wrong for people to perform abortions because it's murder. Only in cases of incest, rape, or if continuing on with the pregnancy endangers the mother's life should abortions be performed.

Forrest Gump told us what his mama once said, "Mama Says Stupid Is As Stupid Does." Since you're asking a stupid question, then you know what Forrest's mama says, she says, "Stupid is As Stupid does."

Since you're asking another stupid question, you know what Forrest's mama says, she says, "Stupid is As Stupid does."

I'm a Christian so I do give a hoot about the Holy Bible. We believe the Scriptures of the Holy Bible are the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. The Scriptures of the Holy Bible is God's revelations to mankind. You might not believe that but we Christians certainly do.

I believe like any other Christian in the Christian God, the Triune God, The Trinity, The Father, The Son (Jesus Christ), The Holy Spirit. He is the one true God, for there is no other. He is the Creator Almighty God who created the heavens and the earth and everything else that exists.

We Read in Scripture:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. Genesis 1:1-2 NLT

Ok Gift thanks for your post regardless that two of your questions were of the type not so bright but just unintelligent stupid type questions.

 

It certainly was you who made the claim that God was not responsible for abortion in the bible. "Stupid is as Stupid Does" would be claiming to believe in scripture in the same post that you are in denial of scripture would it not ? is that what you are referring to Brother Mitt .. your old deceptive tactics catching up to you again ?

Come on now .. we all know how you run and hide from scripture .. in a dance of deception of avoidance - why are you claiming to be a "Christian" .. when you are not a follower of the teachings of Christ.. You should be calling yourself a Luciferian ..or rather a "Lutheran" Peddling that free pass ideology..

Are you still having trouble deciding which God you wish to worship Brother Mitt ?

 

Salvation isn't a scholarly pursuit. Knowing about God isn't the same as knowing God. If you don't know God and he you, then all you learn and speak of him is gossip, rumor, opinion, and traditions of mankind. It is to deny the power of God as well as his existence. And who can be reborn and love God if they aren't first known and loved by him. Can a Wife bear up fruit in testimony to her Husband without first having been known by him? Is to live, a quaint and lesser madness than to live again. Or are they both testimonial to the divine, wherein the denial of one is to be divorced from both life and eternity.