They are your claims that because only a born baby can get a SS that it is a human being not mine now answer my questions So only Americans are human beings and only if they have a SS number? Does that mean anyone can kill illegal immigrants because they are not human beings?
NOPE, I NEVER SAID THAT....it's just your warped idea of what I posted. FoxHastings said: ↑ Well ,yes it does....that's why you can't get a fetus a SSN... Nope , and I never said it did ( your imagination at work again ) A SSN does not define a person BUT YOU HAVE TO BE A PERSON TO GET ONE AND A FETUS CANNOT GET ONE. Yes, but if they are Americans and BORN they can get one..... LOL your Desperation Imagination at work again ! It's fun to watch you so selectively read another's post and MAKE UP what other's posted inaccurately to suit you.....but I established YOUR level of credibility in another post...(there isn't one) Ya know, ANYONE can see your level of comprehension (there isn't one )
You're talking out both sides of your mouth. Having a SS number does NOT define a human being PERIOD.
NOPE, I NEVER SAID THAT....it's just your warped idea of what I posted. FoxHastings said: ↑ Well ,yes it does....that's why you can't get a fetus a SSN... Nope , and I never said it did ( your imagination at work again ) A SSN does not define a person BUT YOU HAVE TO BE A PERSON TO GET ONE AND A FETUS CANNOT GET ONE. Yes, but if they are Americans and BORN they can get one..... LOL your Desperation Imagination at work again ! It's fun to watch you so selectively read another's post and MAKE UP what other's posted inaccurately to suit you.....but I established YOUR level of credibility in another post...(there isn't one) Ya know, ANYONE can see your level of comprehension (there isn't one )
Our constitution recognizes "persons" and "citizens", with citizens having the rights of persons, plus some additions. A fetus does not qualify as a person or a citizen, obviously. If you need to misrepresent what people post in order to make your argument, then you don't have an argument.
Our founding documents says we are all created with the self evidence fundamental right to life and that applies to ALL humans no matter what country in which they live. Person = an individual human being = unborn baby No misrepresentation that claim that a SS# proves you are a human being is quite absurd.
The FACT that a fetus can not get an SS# is evidence that the rights as expressed in our constitution do not apply.
Since when? A foreigner in this country who is charged with a crime has the same rights as you do. And it is about the persons HUMANITY, your HUMANITY is not defined by a government card with your name on it.
Nope. That is about our constitution conferring rights on PERSONS. Anyone inside the USA (tourists, migrants, etc.) is a person. Thus they have the rights of persons as per our constitution and our law. Read the constitution. Our founders weren't just being sloppy when using the terms "person" and "citizen".
You are focusing on one aspect of an issue that is far more complex than you are willing to accept. A lot of that has to do with the health of the woman. We've seen laws written such that a barely developed girl, even possibly pre-teen, can't get an abortion. But, a girl of that age attempting to birth a baby is seriously risky. There is the likelihood of rape and incest that these laws fail to consider. There are plenty of cases where proper healthcare of the woman precludes continuing the pregnancy. There are cases where serious defects in the fetus are detected. It could include conditions of the fetus having little or no brain, or bones so fragile that they break in the womb, or any of the diseases where the resulting baby would have a short painful life before certain death. Some of these cases are not detectable until late in the pregnancy, thus providing fodder for Republicans who sneer at woman in such horrible situations. I could go on. But, I haven't seen these Republican laws show any real evidence of caring about the woman, or realizing that a fetus is a potential - NOT A CHILD.
It has to do with the death of the baby that is killed in an abortion the vast majority of which have nothing to do with the health of the mother. You are focusing on one aspect and minor one. And trying to justify completely unrestricted abortion by any woman at any time in a the preganncy up to the moment of birth with an emotional appeal for .0001% of abortions focusing on that aspect rather than the baby that is killed in the abortion. But, a girl of that age attempting to birth a baby is seriously risky. 1% of abortions. It is the extremely rare case that cannot be managed And trying to justify completely unrestricted abortion by any woman at any time in a the preganncy up to the moment of birth with an emotional appeal for .01% of abortions focusing on that aspect rather than the baby that is killed in the abortion. And when efforts to save the baby fail the baby will tragically die and doctors should stress the comfort of the child in such cases. It's not getting you anywhere so I wouldn't bother let's talk about 99% of abortions you want to ignore.
YOU read the Declaration of Independence which establishes our basic fundamental rights. We are all created equal and with that right to life. The Constitution does not confirm rights on persons it protects our inherent rights like to your life. This is about humanity, human beings and a SS# does not make a person a human being.
Of course not. If she wants to terminate an embryo or fetus, no government interference should be tolerated. I strongly oppose abortion, but it should still be up to her.
Why do you oppose abortion if it is OK with you for the mother to kill her unborn baby/fetus (they are one in the same and the the baby is term a fetus after the 10th week), why should that be tolerated?
The death of a woman due to direct government action against known healthcare is NOT A MINOR ISSUE. That's murder by the state. Also, please STOP accusing me of positions other that what I've stated.
Because my opinion and government might belongs outside of the uterus. Also, abortion laws cannot be enforced and have no benefit to society.
You are seriously screwing up the message of the Declaration of Independence - a document written to justify and explain our separation from England. The constitution confers rights on "persons" and "citizens". The woman is a person or citizen. The fetus is not. Having the government deny the woman life giving healthcare can not be justified.
Abortion is not healthcare why do you keep refusing to call it ABORTION. Abortion KILLS a life it is not to SAVE and care for a life. THAT is what the issue is about, mothers being allowed to kill their unborn babies And those cases you desperately argument are the RARE, the highly rare EXCEPTIONS. How does that justify you wanting to keep allowing mothers to kill their unborn babies up to the moment of birth? Let's deal with the 99% first and then the 1%. How am I accusing your of positions other than what you have stated? What have I misconstrued?
Oh, because I love my kids, nieces, nephews, and now I have a grand baby. I made sure everyone in my family knew that if they were in a position of having to make this decision, I would help them any way I could. Shelter, expenses, child care, etc. One of them took me up on my offer and lived with me until the child was 4. There is a group that provides free ultrasounds to those considering an abortion. When they hear the heart beat, they are more likely to feel a connection and decide to carry full term.
Nothing screwed up about it "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,.............." The founding principle of our government. Your right to life does not come from the government, it is not granted by the government, they are not conferred to you because you are a citizen, you are not declared a person, a human being with those self evident inherent rights from the getgo. ABORTION is life GIVING?????? Are you serious. The purpose of an abortion is just the opposite the TAKING of a life it is NOT healthcare is the mother having her unborn child purposely killed because she doesn't want it to live. And NO one opposes an abortion to save the life of the mother because all measures should first be taken to save both and if the baby cannot be saved while keeping the mother a live then that is a tragedy and since a baby cannot survive inside a dead mother............................... Let's go to the science Oral Testimony of Monique C. Wubbenhorst, M.D., M.P.H., F.A.C.O.G., F.A.H.A. Senior Research Associate, de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture, University of Notre Dame U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Reform “Examining the harm to patients from abortion restrictions and the threat of a national abortion ban” September 29, 2022 Chair Maloney, Ranking Member Comer, and members of the Committee: Thank you for the opportunity to testify at this hearing. My name is Dr. Monique Wubbenhorst, and I am a board-certified obstetrician-gynecologist. I have over 30 years’ experience in patient care, teaching, research, health policy and global health. In my clinical career, I have focused on providing obstetric and gynecological care for underserved and disadvantaged populations, including patients in both domestic and international settings, including those with limited access to care. For example, I have cared for women in rural North Carolina, inner city Boston, Native American reservations, as well as women in India, Nepal, the Philippines, Kazakhstan, Ghana, Cameroon, and South Sudan. I chaired the Women and Special Populations Committee for the American Heart Association and worked as a senior consultant to the United States Veterans Administration, and was on the faculty at Duke University School of Medicine. I worked at the United States Agency for International Development prior to assuming my current role at the de Nicola Center for Ethics and Culture at the University of Notre Dame. Abortion’s harms to women. The Dobbs decision, which returns decision-making on abortion legislation to the states, and federal elected officials, presents an opportunity to mitigate abortion’s many harms to women and communities, and to unborn human beings. Abortion not only poses risks to the mother, it is always lethal to an unborn child. 2. Abortion is not health care. Abortion (legal abortion) is defined by CDC as “an intervention performed by a licensed clinician…within the limits of state regulations, that is intended to terminate a suspected or known ongoing intrauterine pregnancy and that does not result in a live birth”. The goal of any abortion is therefore to kill the embryo or fetus. 2 3. The embryo or fetus—the unborn child—is a human being. That is, he or she is a member of the human family, a unique living being with human DNA distinct from his or her parent. He or she is not a “clump of cells” or a “potential child” but an unborn child, a child assuming the human form. 4. Since the goal of an abortion is to cause the death of the unborn child, and the unborn child is a human being, abortion causes the death of a human being. 5. There are, of course, different types of healthcare. Preventive healthcare, or prophylaxis, consists of measures taken for the purposes of disease prevention, defined by Leavell and Clark (Hugh R. Leavell and E. Gurney Clark. The science and art of preventing disease, prolonging life, and promoting physical and mental health and efficiency. Leavell, H. R., & Clark, E. G. (1979). Preventive Medicine for the Doctor in his Community (3rd ed.). Huntington, NY: Robert E. Krieger Publishing Company). Treatment, or therapeutic healthcare, is defined as “relating to the curing of a disease or medical condition (Cambridge Dictionary, https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/therapeutic). Palliative healthcare is defined as “specialized medical care for people living with a serious illness, such as cancer or heart failure.” 6. It is my opinion that abortion neither prevents, treats, or palliates any disease. Instead, it has as its goal the death of a human being. It is therefore not health care, for either the mother or her fetus. 7. Research shows that not only do the majority of OB/GYNs not perform abortions, but the percentage that do is declining and has been for decades. 17. It is my opinion, supported by these facts, that abortion is not healthcare, and is not essential healthcare, given that a small and decreasing percentage of OB/GYNs perform this procedure. 63. For other pregnancies, where serious complications occur, early delivery of the unborn child may be necessary, but such a delivery is not an abortion because its goal is to save the life of the mother, and the life of the fetus, if possible. The intent of the procedure is not to kill the fetus, and the procedure is done in such a way as to attempt to save the life of the unborn child. The death of the fetus may be a tragic outcome of early delivery, but it is not the goal. If the unborn child dies, the procedure is still considered a success. This is in contrast to a “failed abortion”, which is a failure because the fetus is not killed and the pregnancy continues. Much more of her testimony here. https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/politics/2022/october/ob-gyn-tells-congress-abortion-is-not-healthcare
That's all great and I applaud you and your family but can you simply tell me clearly and concisely why you oppose the act of abortion? Who knows we might agree.
