Abolish the IRS? Now that would be a change!

Who would do such a thing?

Abolish the IRS and numerous taxes, replace it all with a simpler, single tax method.

The house republicans- have such bill coming to vote.

I see incredible cost savings possible. Huge simplification in tax preparation and accounting, lowering costs. Massive increase in efficiency possible for citizens at every level- AND government.

Just a bill coming up... But what if it actually passes? Awesome!

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

 

Never happen, the private sector has too much to lose.

 

If you want to take in tax revenue, the IRS or whatever its current name is will never go away. No matter what tax system you vote for or use, the revenue agency will still exist, no matter what.

the actual bill in question was already passed, it was to eliminate the PAYGO and replace it with CUTGO and thus eliminate all future IRS funding. In that same bill, it is proposed to abolish the income tax and replace it with a national consumption tax at 23%. In that bill, that is essentially a tax increase and will now need a supermajority to pass. It won't happen if the GOP follows their own rules. Want to make a bet they won't do that though.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-bill-abolishing-irs-eliminating-income-tax

 

So you want to increase taxes on the poor and middle class while reducing them on the very wealthy that don’t already skimp on taxes?

That’s brilliant!

All y’all need to do next is defund education, cut social security and medicare and the US will be a perfect breeding ground for new Republicans.

 

Lol, some of you people and the strawman. That poster gave NO indication of wanting to do what you've accused.

 

Did I say he did? Did I ask him to argue against it?
Do I need to post what a strawman is?

 

Hahaha...Repubs know full well this would never pass. Hell, even the Repubs don't want to abolish the IRS as it's all part of the machine they belong to. This bill is a pure political move to get their base all wet. Seems to be working so far

 

No strawman argument here. Sales tax or a national sales tax is regressive. If you look at the state sales tax system, only one third of all final goods and services are included. What is not included is something like prescription and nonprescription drugs. The National Retails Sales Tax would tax everything from purchasing new homes and cars to the usual grocerty goods. For the wealthy, they can afford to purchase those same times elsewhere, like in other countries, and not have to purchase them here. They can also purchase them using sham trusts, LLCs and other legal devices to skim on the taxes as well. Not so much with the average Mr. And Mrs. John Q Taxpayer.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/bri...holds spend,sharply as household income rises.

 

Carter makes some excellent points. Wonder if this will gain traction with others than from the Freedom Caucus.

It's been long said that our tax code needs to be simplified for the reasons he states above.

Hear, hear! We have come so far away from our Constitutional principles. Time to get our power back.

Let's hear more about it and bring it to the vote.

 

Hey, didn't they campaign in 2017 for the Trump tax cut with the slogan: Your tax return will fit on the back of a postcard.

What happened? I saw no difference in the length of my printed-out tax return between 2017 and 2018. I did see $80 a month in tax "savings" -- at the expense of trillions of dollars of additional federal deficit. Whew, that REALLY changed my financial position -- not.

Now, why would you believe those same people making those same promises over and over again, when at the end all they do is reduce the tax burden for the wealthy, while pushing the federal deficit through the roof?

BTW: Guess who will be punished by a consumption tax: The consumer, who drives the American economy. On the other hand, the ultra wealthy, who spend a much smaller fraction of annual income on consumption, will see their wealth explode, and then can pass it on tax free to their do nothing trust fund babies. Must be the Republican dream....

 

yeah, Steve Forbes made that campaign promise too in 1996 when he was running for President. The GOP even rejected it at that time.

https://greensboro.com/just-a-simpl...cle_4f75be69-d70a-5ae5-a2a1-a274d9b68905.html

 

He believes those same people because he believes what he’s been told to believe.

 

If you have tax revenue but no government agency responsible for collecting and handling that tax revenue, how are you supposed to function? That'd be like Walmart corporation not having an accounting department.

I guess we just mail our hand-written(who is going to provide a tax form when you get rid of the agency that provides tax forms) tax returns that we scribbled out on some notebook paper right to the president? Or maybe we have 7,000 different generic tax return forms that people can use. You know, to simplify things.

 

They don't want government to be funded, that's the whole point behind this. Starve the beast and such.....

 

Yeah, didn't consider that. I am occasionally guilty of overlooking highly irrational nonsense.

 

Have the Republicans any figures to show how this will work. Will there be enough income to support the armed forces, public services, etc.? Simple questions: How will this work and what effect will it have on revenue.

 

I would suggest you talk to a restaurant owner, especially a franchise restaurant owner, to see if that is a good idea. What happens in a national sales tax scheme is that EVERY business becomes a tax employer, or one who is responsible for withholding and paying the tax while passing those withholdings onto customers. It quite literally increases price, assuming everything else is equal, and is highly regressive in nature.

 

There have been studies by varous nonprofit organizations that deal in tax policy on how it would work. Currently, only about one-third of all products have a state sales tax subject to it. A National Consumption Tax or national Retail Sales Tax would pretty much cover everything from services to wages to everything in a flat rate, with no exceptions. At least with income tax, you can chooose how much based on the nunber of qualifications you have with the W-4 form. It will hurt families with both spouses working the most.

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/flat-tax-vs-national-sales-tax-4326.html

https://www.brookings.edu/research/dont-buy-the-sales-tax/

https://www.urban.org/sites/default...Sales-Tax-What-Would-the-Rate-Have-To-Be-.PDF

the disadvantages outweigh the advantages of a National Retail Sales Tax, especially among seniors, fixed-income persons, lower-income persons, and even middle-income persons. Residential homes is not considered investment property for the National Retail Sales Tax, and most Americans either have no savings account, traditional, or a savings account with nominal value. For the tax-deferred accounts, it will lose its primary advantage and still be subject to payouts subject to the National Retail Sales tax.

 

Then you wonder why people laugh at you.

 

We're so used to being conned that most of the time we get it wrong. This thing has just come out on the news, I think it's still just vaguely defined, so I can't speak to any details.
I can say that the IRS is a mess, the tax code is a monster beyond anybody's comprehension including the IRS, and that there's vast room for improvement.

Now- perhaps the most distorted view of taxation is the concept that the wealthy don't pay their share. The fact is- telling people that get them to line up and back new tax ideas. Bad ideas.

Fact:
The IRS audits about 1% of millionaire returns... and about 1.3% of lower income returns. Now consider how many people there are in each of those brackets, and it's clear they audit vastly more poorer people thjan wealthy people.

Consider that the IRS reports the sources of revenue every year- and every year, the percentages are similar to this one.

The bottom 50% pay less than 3% of total taxes.
The top 10% pay 70% of total taxes.
The top 1% pays 30% of total taxes.

Either you failed 4th grade math, or you lie to yourself if you don't understand that. The democrats are the people whose mantra is that free money buys votes- and it does. It's also stupid, because they get that free money from the taxpayers. They lie to you. There IS NO FREE MONEY. The republicans understand the big picture of finance far better than the dems do. Unfortunately- wise financial management is a long-term thing that requires self discipline in advance; you build for tomorrow- which of course is always coming. It's less attractive today- but very effective in the future. That means if you had started on an effective financial plan 20 years ago- you would be fixed for life today. If you put it off till you had nothing better to do- you die in debt.

Now any smart person knows that the blanket terms of democrat and republican include a wide variety of positions, so individuals are not exactly like the group image.... which in these days is probably not representative of the group because the other side distorts it.

If you aren't skeptical and know when things are too good to be true- the first liar doesn't have a chance, because you will believe whatever promises you more.... and sell out your country thinking you will get it.
That makes you an ideal democrat. Too bad, because the old-time democrats were pretty strong and independent people-with character. I miss that kind.

I haven't paid a dime in interest in 20 years.

 

Yes, please think about what is too good to be true:

-Tax cuts paying for themselves -- too good to be true.
-Abolishing the IRS and shifting income tax to a consumption tax making everyone richer -- too good to be true.

The destruction of the good ole US will come with the promise of unbelievable riches for all. The suckers lap it all up and vote for those politicians who promise them gold-plated spoons.

 

A consumption tax makes far more sense than an income tax and all the necessary deductions, credits, etc to make it progressive. Taxing consumption (less food, medical, etc.) Would be the most fair system.

 

If by people you mean you and your ilk? I take it as a badge of esteemed honor to see such individuals laugh at anything seeing what y’all stand for.

 

If you do- then you also laugh at honor, truth, love of country, respect for responsibility, the wish for others to thrive, for families to be safe, for equal opportunity and a host of others values you apparently would only want for yourself, and see others who have them as having robbed of them.

I've seen a lot of such people- and they are all on the left. They have no future. They can't do well in a just society, and if they destroy it, they destroy themselves. Losers.

 

there are very few deductions for a national sales tax. Now, a gross receipts tax would be something that may accomplish that, similar to the Franchise tax, but for individuals, and personal expenses, most, if not all, of your expenses would not be deductible. In fact, for the individual, you would be the principal person paying the National Retail Sales Tax, which means no tax returns. Those that have to collect the tax will have to file tax returns, usually every quarter similar to 941.

If you exempt food and medicine from the consumption tax, then the rate will be higher.