Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

You use such wonderful terms of endearment. Did you learn to curse from the Jesus character? He was always cursing at people.

 

I'm not making up anything. You condemned our founders, our nation, me for my beliefs in our nation and God, and now you condemn God. They are your words. That is who you are. Where is the inaccuracy?

 

They were peacemakers who were put to death for preaching and practicing the doctrines of peace and salvation instituted by Jesus Christ. I mentioned them because their God is the God of today and forever. I know this day of myself by Gods spirit that he lives. I am real. And you can't whisk that away with convoluted reasoning. I'm not some simp, longing for identity and belonging, duped into cult like thinking.

 

They were "appealing" to something greater than the King of England. Under British rule your rights DID come from the King. This was the recognition that our rights came from a power higher than the King. The God of the Christians, the God of Muslims, the God of the Jews...or no God at all. It didn't matter as long as it was recognized that no man could grant you rights or take them away.
The problem is you have been brainwashed by the current GOP and their allies into thinking that this is some kind of "Christian Nation". That all of the Founding Fathers were Christian and held the same view of God that you do today.
Open your eyes.

 

Good for you, though some may judge you otherwise.
A cult is a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous

 

You're a funny guy trev, one who doesn't really think things out clearly before he sputters what comes out of his mouth.

We human beings all lack true knowledge, so this includes you trev but anyway to have possession of true knowledge one has to have insight into 100% of all knowledge, this my boy is the definition of true knowledge.

Only one who has possession of true knowledge is of course our Creator Almighty God. He gave mankind His revelations that are written in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible. That's why I believe the Holy Bible is the inerrant, infallible Word of God.

So, my idea of inerrancy comes from my belief in the Creator Almighty God, for only He has possession of true knowledge, in other words He has 100% of all knowledge, therefore He knows everything.

We Read in Scripture:

20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 1 John 3:20 ESV

Ok thanks trev for your post, I hope my response has enlightened you somewhat so that in the future you will really think things out clearly before sputtering anything that comes out of your mouth.

 

Are you actually real? The Bible has been proven errant. Just because you don't want to accept it from some religious standpoint makes it no less.

You clearly lack any ability to study for yourself.

Your post hasn't enlightened me at all. It's just made me wonder about your competence. You can't even answer the questions I have asked.


Finally we get to the Iron Age. This is when Israel supposedly arrived in Canaan. But it has been obvious to archaeologists for over a century that the archaeology of the Iron Age bears little resemblance to the Biblical account of the conquest of Canaan. There were invasions, but they were from the north, from Syria and Mesopotamia, and they came in several waves, unlike the lightning conquest under Joshua. The people who settled the land after the invasions also came from the north, though there is much evidence to suggest that they weren’t the invaders, and merely settled an empty land after it had been destroyed by others. The south remained in the hands of the Bronze Age inhabitants, albeit on a lower material level.

The conclusions drawn from this evidence have been devastating. The people in the south, who constituted the kingdom of Judah, whence came the Jews, has been determined to be of Canaanite descent! If not biologically, then culturally. And the people in the north, the other ten tribes of Israel, have been determined to have been “no relation” to the tribes of the south. The idea of twelve tribes descended from the sons of Jacob has been removed from the history books and recatalogued under “Mythology, Jewish.”

GotQuestions In short, we cannot say for certain when the events of the book of Exodus occurred. A straightforward reading of the Bible, combined with some archeological evidence, leads to a date of 1446 BC. A less-literal view of certain dates in the Old Testament, combined with fairly substantial extrabiblical evidence, would suggest a date around 1225 BC. More outside-the-box thinking allows other archaeological and biblical evidence to coordinate with dates somewhere in between.

GotQuestions. Despite the ambiguity, there is ample evidence to suggest the events of Exodus are plausible. (Note plausible) The complication, in this case, is not determining “if” Israel was freed from Egypt, but precisely “when.”

The fact they cannot even date it but use alternatives etc. simply shows their desperation to make this event a reality.

The only major Exodus from Egypt was the Hyksos - thrown out in a hurry by Pharaoh Ahmose I and his army from the south.

I really can't be bothered with your inability to answer.

 

That works both ways. I see the whole world as a cult, out of which, God calls us to sanity and salvation. That's why it is written that for God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

Show.
Me.
The.
Evidence.

 

Peoples personal religions are irrelevant to the point. It being that our founders said that it is self evident that we are all the children of one God. By that, we have a God given rightful claim to be free. And our common origin in God secures our equality in freedom. To your former position of there being no proof of God. That too is rendered moot by our founders, who did not first prove by science the existence of God, neither did they lay out by reason that conclusion. They said that it was self evident. Like it or not, that is our nations foundation and birth, secured by war.

 

That is NOT what they said. They said that it is self evident that people are endowed by THEIR creator (not THE creator, not OUR creator, not the ONE Creator). The word their shows that the Founding Fathers understood each individual is free to believe in whatever "Creator" they want. That our rights are not coming from a specific "Creator" but whatever each person believes that Creator to be.
Like it or not the DOI was NOT speaking of the Christian God (or any other specific God) but simply the concept of a higher power.

 

If that interests you, you have to find out and know for yourself. As I've already told you, I can't breathe for you, see for you, eat for you, or poop and pee for you. That is your job. Salvation is a personal matter.

 

Creator, not creators. Supreme judge, not judges. And divine providence, not providences. It all goes to singularity or origin. Otherwise we would not be equal, nor our rights the same, neither would we have freedom in common. Also I didn't say they established an official religion. They established religious liberty. So it is my constitutional right to worship Jesus Christ. And I don't care if you don't like that or the fact that it goes hand in hand with the creator at our nations foundation.

I don't know what it is about people who think that if they go away from the truth, that somehow the truth changes or ceases to be, when it is they who have changed relative to it. So upon return, they had rather attempt to change the truth than labor to change themselves.

"Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." Matthew 21:42-44

In other words, one should acknowledge the truth and repent of ones error, rather than take issue with the truth and be destroyed.

 

Your opinions/beliefs are duly noted; however, I don't agree with them. When the critic says, "I have tested them with questions and the answers they give cannot be true", he's basing this on his own insight and unless he has insight into 100% of all knowledge, he can never be sure he's right.

If anything is faulty here, it's your insight that lacks 100% of all knowledge. My reliance on my primary source the Holy Bible is not faulty because it's the Word of God and God has 100% of all knowledge, therefore He knows everything.

My reliance on my secondary source which is my favorite Christian Ministry is not faulty because they keep in line and collaborate with what's written in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible.

We Read in Scripture:

20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 1 John 3:20 ESV

Ok thanks trev for your post. Hopefully for your sake one day you will rely again on what's written in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible and not on your own insight that lacks 100% of all knowledge. Don't delay too long, the door to salvation, to eternal bliss doesn't stay open forever.

 

My own insight lacks 100% knowledge...but that doesn't mean there is a God with 100% knowledge just because your Bible says so. It was written by men who, guess what, lacked 100% knowledge and, in fact, had less knowledge than I have today.

 

Mitt is unwilling to study anything that can show the Bible is wrong. It's rather like trying to teach a child who refuses to learn in case his own ideas are wrong. Consequently he ends up in a cul.de.sac with nowhere to go.
His secondary sources have all failed to answer my questions because they refuse to accept the errancy of the Bible. As has Mitt.

 

Apparently Trevor doesn't think much of Jews. As if there are only two kinds of Jews, cons and idiots, who don't even know their own immediate surroundings and history, recent and past, well enough to know when they are being misled by a glaring fraud. That is both the old and new testament writers. Jesus was a fraud. His Apostles were stupid. The converts were dumber than stupid, and so forth. Granted that I know very little about the Bible and Jewish history myself. But Trevors take on it smacks of an annihilistic agenda. In my experience, Jews seem to have a love/hate relationship with the truth, and they are very smart in general. So even if I didn't know that God lives, I would suspect Trevors take on the matter for the reason of common sense.

 

Religion is like a virus. Whatever does not kill it makes it stronger. Religions (for the most part) have had thousands of years to refine their message to make them as immune as possible to reason. It doesn't mean that the people who believe/follow a religion are idiots. It means that religion is very good at masking it's errors, shortcomings and illogic. I used to be a believer, I'm not an idiot. I was simply fooled. That is the situation of 99% of believers.

 

Yeah but Trevor's take is that the Jews who lived it weren't even aware of the happenings around them as it was happening or their own recent history. As for me, it's irrelevant. I was born into a non religious family in the twentieth century. For the first twenty six years of my life I knew essentially nothing about Christianity and religion in general. So I'm not steeped in religious doctrine for the formulation of my understanding one way or the other.

I disagree with your take on 99% of believers. In Christianity, I think that most people sense that God is real outside of any particular dogma. They don't know it, but they sense it when queried. And when they read or hear the doctrines of Jesus Christ, they relate to it because it is intelligent and kind. They intuit the fallen nature of mankind and the necessity of repentance and salvation. So to hear of it or read it, there is a measure of confirmation, or a triangulation of sorts. So they lean into it. They are not then fooled initially. Perhaps extensive study might draw them into this or that bramble of dogma. But the initial sense is in my opinion not a matter of deception, but a natural inclination to the truth, heaven, home, and God. That's just my opinion. People can speak for themselves.

 

Why would a person have to repent for doing what God told him to do? For instance, he said to stone to death your disobedient child. So, if a person does that, why would the person feel the need to repent?

 

Why did God design man with a foreskin and then direct men to cut off the foreskin.

 

The skinners probably ate them for snacks.

 

Looki here - Brother Mitt going round telling othrs they lack insight .... man with big log in own eye fo sure. in the form of a big Phat Fallacy .. claiming primary source is 100% all knowledge .. circular logic to be sure, but also demonstrably false.

Which Holy Bible is not faulty Brother Mitt ? are you going round selling that big Phat circular Logic Fallacy again .. part of the tool box of the decever that one .. was it he who taught you this .. ?

 

Interesting.
1. The Jews were right to reject Jesus as their Messiah. Nothing in the OT or Jewish belief shows this too be true.
2. Apart from mainly Orthodox Jews many are now accepting that the OT is, as Mitt would put it, errant. Many accept the early stories as allegories and, more important proof is the fact that archaeology is not proving the Bible.
3.The last information I had, from a Jewish News source, was that over 50% of Jews worldwide no longer practised their religion and a great many Jews in Israel are Jewish by nationality, but secular by belief.
4. Certainly the Jews are smart. They are beginning to realise with modern knowledge that things are not what they have always believed. They didn't have that knowledge in their beginning. Smarter than many Christians who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.
5. Jesus was not a fraud. Where have I said so? I have, and do say, Jesus was simply a Jewish 'evangelist' of his day, seeking to bring Israel back to their god. Christianity/Matthew/Luke have simply misused/misinterpreted Jewish scriptures to make Jesus divine. I've already shown that to Mitt. It's as clear as daylight - unless you don't want to know that. That's the fraudulent part. Virtually everything Jeses did and preached was in accordance with Judaism. The Gospel writers threw in a few ideas and miracles to make Jesus divine. A what a memory 'Matthew' had to be able to quote - verbatim - the Sermon on the Mount about 5 decades later. Given the complexity of Hebrew writing, the reporter at the time must have been fantastically fast.
6. Every religion starts with someone wanting to believe and convincing another of 'their truth'. Do you thing Islam is right? That's how thaty started? Do you believe that the Mormons are right? You believe the Book of Mormon although it is shown to be wrong in its history, genetics. That's how that started. You actually believe your experience was by the Holy Spirit. If someone could show you irrevocably it was just a normal function of the brain, would you want to believe it?
7. If you know little about the Bible and Jewish History why comment on it and criticise me.
8. My love/hate with the Jews? I have regular contact through Jewish sources such as MyJewishlearning.com.
Chabad website
And Jewish writer of religious books
Dr. Eli's Book Club <admin@defenderofisrael.net>
Love/hate?

The whole idea that what someone was told and believed 2500 years ago MAY still hold good today is to say we have stood time still. We have moved on 2 1/2 millenia. Does anyone still believe in evil witches to be burnt at the stake or stoned to death? That ancient diseases were the result of man's sin through 'Adam'. That the Jewish preacher was prophesied 800 years before as the Messiah? 20+ generations would pass. What relevance was that to the people of the time of the so-called prophecy.

We have moved on from the past in so many things. Science, medicine, philosophy. Progress has been made, not without problems, but we no longer live in the ancient world of ignorance. Though we still have much to learn.

 

The Bible doesn't tell us anything about Lord Jesus' youth other than what we read in Luke 2:41-52. So your statement, "taught from the age of 5 through to 13" must come from extra Biblical writings. And yes, Lord Jesus preached Judaism. Truth is, Lord Jesus was not a Christian; He was a Jewish rabbi. Lord Jesus followed the Jewish law God had given to Moses. I will expound more on this later by presenting an article from my favorite Christian Mininisty.

But anyway, God chose not to tell us much about the childhood of the Lord Jesus other than what we read in the following passage in Luke 2:41-52 presented below:

We Read in Scripture:

Jesus Speaks with the Teachers

41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Passover festival. 42 When Jesus was twelve years old, they attended the festival as usual. 43 After the celebration was over, they started home to Nazareth, but Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. His parents didn’t miss him at first, 44 because they assumed he was among the other travelers. But when he didn’t show up that evening, they started looking for him among their relatives and friends.

45 When they couldn’t find him, they went back to Jerusalem to search for him there. 46 Three days later they finally discovered him in the Temple, sitting among the religious teachers, listening to them and asking questions. 47 All who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers.

48 His parents didn’t know what to think. “Son,” his mother said to him, “why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been frantic, searching for you everywhere.”

49 “But why did you need to search?” he asked. “Didn’t you know that I must be in my Father’s house?” [a] 50 But they didn’t understand what he meant.

51 Then he returned to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. And his mother stored all these things in her heart.

52 Jesus grew in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and all the people. Luke 2:41-52 NLT

Footnotes

a. 2:49 Or “Didn’t you realize that I should be involved with my Father’s affairs?”

After reading this passage we learn that the young youthful Jesus was very well behaved while in the temple. He was sitting among the religious teachers, listening to them and asking questions. And all who heard Him were amazed at His understanding and His answers.

Now let me present an in-depth thorough explanation from my favorite Christian Ministry that explains why Lord Jesus was not a Christian.

Ok thanks trev for your post.