Macron says ‘nothing ruled out,’ including using Western troops, to stop Russia winning Ukraine war

Geography does not justify Russian imperialism.

 

Yugoslavia was a mess after WWII and really had no way out. The United States actually wanted Yugoslavians to try unity. History tells the rest but that was not from western land grabs as Russia has done in all the areas I mentioned.

You are well aware that Chechnya declared independence. They weren’t recognized internationally but they did declare it. Much like Taiwan. Ignoring democracy Russian military revamped their minds.

Georgia lost territory as did Ukraine and Russia has continued their westward assault into Ukraine. You can’t deny that.

Russians are the ones starting WWIII not the west because sooner or later we have to stop that assault. Period

 

Will that be your position the next time Azerbaijan invades Armenia?

 

I won’t pretend to know details about that invasion. Can’t say what they were trying to do at all.

 

I’m off to bed I’ll try and respond to inevitable communist sympathizers in the morning.

 

Horseshit.

NATO bombed the crap out of Yugoslavia because Milosevic wouldn't kiss the ring. The genocide accusations were all made up by the USG/CIA. Milosevic, killed in prison by you know who, was exonerated posthumously. TWICE. http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/news/smorg_aw113017.htm

And since you want to go with Chechnya, it was CIA planted terrorists that started that fiasco....aimed at weakening Russia/regime change. The exact same thing they did in ukraine with Yanukovych in power, twice (referring to the Orange Revolution that prevented Yanukovych from taking power in a previous election).

Maybe some day you'll travel the world and see how it really is.

 

Azerbaijan, supported by NATO-allied Turkey, wants to reclaim territory that used to be under its control. The contested territory was allocated (by the West) to Armenia after the fall of the Soviet Union. Most recently Azerbaijan invaded Armenia in 2022, shelling civilian population centers and knocking out Armenia's armored forces with Turkish drones, in what was oft-labeled a paradigm shift in modern warfare. Azerbaijan took some of the land it wanted before joint peace efforts by both the West and Russia led to a ceasefire and a tentative peace that is not expected to last, as Azerbaijan still stakes claim to more of Armenian territory and Armenia was left essentially defenseless with the destruction of its military, and its primary military supplier, Russia, has higher military priorities (for obvious reasons) than militarily supporting Armenia anytime in the near future.

SO. When Azerbaijan invades Armenia again, as its generally understood to be only a matter of time til it does, will it be the US, the West and NATOs responsibility to send troops to Armenia to "stop that assault. Period"?

 

Didn't stop you with ukraine, Yugoslavia or Chechnya. May as well muck up Azerbaijan and Armenia. Which side will you pick, the muslims you did in Chechnya and Yugoslavia or the Christians?

 

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-...on-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early
How far has NATO expanded eastward since verbal assurances were given by James Baker to Mikhail Gorbachev in February, 1990?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO

Putin has no need to rationalize his stance to Russians who are all aware of how many times Russian has faced invasions from hostile European military alliances. He made it clear in 2008 that control of Ukraine is a red line he will never allow western imperialists to cross.

The US responded by enabling a far-right, anti-Russian coup government to come to power in Kiev in 2014, setting off a civil war that led directly to Putin's SMO two years ago.

 

Russia launched its current SMO in Ukraine eight years after a democratically elected government was overthrown by a US facilitated coup in 2014; thereby, violating the treaty you mentioned.

Russia responded in self-defense when the CIA launched destabilization efforts in Georgia and Chechnya just as Americans brought radical Islamists to power in Afghanistan forty years ago; how has that worked out?

US attempts at using Ukraine as a launching pad for affecting regime change in Russia and the USSR actually began in 1949 with Operation Red Sox

https://mearsheimer.substack.com/p/the-darkness-ahead-where-the-ukraine

"In a major address Putin delivered this past February (2023), he stressed that the West is a mortal threat to Russia. 'During the years that followed the breakup of the Soviet Union,' he said, 'the West never stopped trying to set the post-Soviet states on fire and, most importantly, finish off Russia as the largest surviving portion of the historical reaches of our state. They encouraged international terrorists to assault us, provoked regional conflicts along the perimeter of our borders, ignored our interests and tried to contain and suppress our economy.'

"He further emphasized that, 'The Western elite make no secret of their goal, which is, I quote, ‘Russia’s strategic defeat.’"

 

Let me research this a bit before I reply

 

Those are alliances not land grabs. That’s very different. Alliances of democratically elected governments.

 

Not everything is about religion. Even Russia has picked Muslims over other religions before in other countries. Your biased is shining through on this post bud.

 

Personally I don’t know why Turkey is even a NATO member. They are constantly at odds with the rest of the members. That said I believe it sounds to me that NATO has tried to discourage these actions. In fact the United States specifically has shown support for Armenia. So yeah…. I guess we would help stop that assault.

 

When you use word “diplomacy” you mean appeasement, right?

Bringing Russia to became part of NATO is not diplomacy, it is appeasement. Not expanding NATO is not diplomacy, it is appeasement.

Appeasing dictator like Putin and give whatever he wants is not diplomacy.

 

It's not made up...you know it yourself....but ignorance is bliss it seems.

 

Another America heating history by America hater.

God Bless America!

 

What a sweet, sweet map.

Anyone who loves America should be very proud of this map. Can’t wait to add Sweden to this list.

God Bless America and her allies!

 

no, I mean diplomacy. You know, that thing were both sides give and take, until an agreement is reached that all can live with. The longer you fail to effectively use diplomacy, the more costly it becomes later, as we are seeing now. All of this could have been avoided if we had acted responsibly decades ago, bringing Russia into the fold rather than backing them into a corner. Our position as sole superpower made us lazy, foolish, and too quick to use the stick.

 

There is nothing to give to Putin. Ukraine doesn’t belong to Russia, Ukrainian don’t want to be part of Russia. So there is nothing to give or take. Putin just needs to take his murderous army back to Russia.

I am sorry if that doesn’t fit understanding of diplomacy.

 

there was plenty that could have been given in the past, including in writing promises not to expand NATO. Probably lots of other things as well. Pigheaded attitudes such as “don’t give an inch” is what gets young men and women killed by the hundreds of thousands.

 

"Bring RuZzia into the fold"??

As in how...admit them into EU/NATO?

Sure....somehow I think Moscow would have a hard time accepting orders from Brussels and Washington.....not just that....but having foreign troops on its soil.....namely the Germans....Again....would be a little too much.

That in itself is a non starter.

 

Why would they take orders from them? It should be an alliance, not a hierarchy.
With the attitude that it is a non-starter, we end up with the tragedy you see today. It could have happened. But the power hungry in NATO prevailed.

 

Macron's statement revealed the inevitable: Sooner or later, article 5 will be invoked. I wouldn't be surprised if behind closed doors, the Russian Military brass is in full war preparations. A hint of that is Putin confirming that more forces will be relocated to the west of their border due to the Swedish/Finnish joining NATO(in fact, logistically speaking, it should be much easier for Russia as the territory is closer to home.

 

NATO HQ is in Brussels?....isn't it?

That's where most decisions are made....isn't it?

They're not made in North Macedonia ...are they?