Do you defend starvation as a weapon in Gaza?

Reality:
1. Hamas is a deadly terrorist gang in Gaza.
2. Therefore no reports from Gaza are credible.
Think it through.

 

Read again. Focus here: "Gazans’ only means of passage to the outside world – is completely sealed"
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL, NEWS, Gazans cut off after Egypt seals border, February 6, 2008. (Emphasis mine).
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2008/02/locked-down-gaza-20080206/

 

They aren't alone in being responsible. Nettanyahu regime is as well. As much as you may wish it to be, it isn't an either/or. They are BOTH doing harm to innocent Palestinian civilians, including children.

I very much doubt that Hamas releasing hostages would end the suffering in Gaza. Why would you think that so?

And if only the Nettanyahu regime cared about the civilians, or their own civilians taken hostage.

 

True. Including Israel's own. It isn't like they have allowed the Palestinians out of Gaza and into Israel to safety, right?

 

Now you are just making stuff up. I double dog dare you to paste up a quote from my posts agreeing with the use of starvation as a weapon.
Hamas should stop making Gaza's pay for the donated food they steal from refugees.

“The U.N. agency provides food, education and health care to more than half of Gaza's 1.4 million residents, but tensions between the UNRWA and Hamas could harm international donations.

"Does anyone really think that the Americans, who are our single largest donor, or the Europeans, who are our largest multination donor, would give us aid in the generous way they do if they thought that aid would go to terrorists?" Gunness [Christopher Gunness, a spokesman for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency,] said.”
NBC, WORLD, Hamas seizes food aid, blankets ‘by force’, Hamas police seized thousands of blankets and food packages meant for the needy in Gaza, the U.N. said Wednesday, a move that could threaten the provision of aid., NBC NEWS, Feb. 4, 2009, 5:35 PM EST / Source: The Associated Press. (Emphasis mine)
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna29015633

 

Interesting position. Would you endorse opening up the sourthern US border and inviting in the civilians there if war broke out in Mexico?

 

What's my side?

 

Why should Israel allow enemies into Israel?
Why do those who claim they want to help Hamas and Gazans use walls and tanks to trap them in a war zone?

“It is clear from the video - published by Palestinian journalist Ahmed Al-Madhoun - that the Egyptian workers were building the new wall on top of the old wall that already existed, meaning that their work was to increase the height of the wall, not to build a new wall.

Pictures taken earlier showed that the Egyptian authorities carried out new restoration work on the fence separating Egypt and the Gaza Strip, east of Rafah, where heavy equipment transported sand and strengthened the watchtowers and concrete fence along the border with the Gaza Strip.

Activists' comments

The video of the construction of the concrete wall between Egypt and Gaza sparked many comments on social media sites, some of which were reported on the episode (2/5/2024) of the “Shabakat” program.”
TELLER REPORT, How did activists comment on the video of building the concrete wall between Egypt and Gaza?
2/5/2024, 11:30:26 AM
Highlights: The Egyptian government has strengthened the security of its closed borders with the Gaza Strip under the pretext of preventing the displacement of the Palestinian people from the Strip to Sinai. A video published by a Palestinian journalist in Gaza showed Egyptian workers constructing a cement wall on the border with the Palestinian Strip. It is clear from the video that the Egyptian workers were building the new wall on top of the old wall that already existed, meaning that their work was to increase the height of the wall. The Egyptian moves come in light of talk about an Israeli military move towards the Philadelphia axis. (Emphasis mine)
https://www.tellerreport.com/life/2...-wall-between-egypt-and-gaza-.H1I5QpFA9T.html

 

Of course. Non-combatant refugees from a war zone should always be allowed to flee the conflict.
Egypt under OAU conventions to let the Gazans flee from the war zone.

“Egypt’s clearest duty arises under the refugee convention of the Organization of African Unity (OAU), which Egypt joined in 1980. That agreement provides a broad definition of a refugee: any person who “owing to external aggression, occupation, foreign domination, or events seriously disturbing public order” is “compelled to leave his place of habitual residence in order to seek refuge in another place outside his country.”

“Human rights groups that condemn “illegal pushbacks at the border,” either in the U.S. or Europe, are strangely silent on this topic. Certainly Egypt should not be forced to shoulder the burden itself — more than 13 European countries took at least 10,000 Syrian refugees, while Arab states like Iraq and Lebanon have taken in many hundreds of thousands. Why should Egypt be allowed to seal itself off at the expense of civilian suffering? Egypt’s refusal will likely serve as a precedent for other countries and other conflicts, fundamentally undermining refugee law.”
THE HILL, Egypt’s border closure flouts international law, BY EUGENE KONTOROVICH, 10/25/23. (Emphasis mine)
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4275122-egypts-border-closure-flouts-international-law/

 

It is probably a pretty good indication of what media is showing in the US. If you listen to what people like Biden and other politicians, the news etc, tend to say in the USA vs what the Nettanyahu regime itself explicitly says in Israel (not in english), the difference between the two is pretty big. Many Americans probably think Nettanyahu supports a two state solution, wants a ceasefire if only Hamas would release hostages, etc. These are the people who haven't heard him and other Israeli officials speaking what they have in Israel (not in english).

 

Gazan civilians are enemies of Israel? Including the 6 year olds? If that's your position then that really says it all.

 

Aid shipments that are stolen by terrorists obviously prolong warfare. Aid shipments to Hamas prolong warfare and lead directly to the starvation in Gaza.

Read again:


• MKD


UN: Signs that gangs seizing Gaza aid and reselling on black market

• There are signs that public order is breaking down in the Gaza Strip, with gangs trying to enrich themselves by stealing from aid deliveries and apparently reselling items on the black market, the UN emergency aid organization said on Tuesday.

• Post By Ivan Kolekevski

• 20:43, 27 February, 2024
https://mia.mk/en/story/un-signs-that-gangs-seizing-gaza-aid-and-reselling-on-black-market

Civilians in Gaza need to be allowed to flee the war zone. The nations and organizations that claim to care about them should have acted to evacuate them on day one of the war.

Do you support Egypt's decision to seal its border and use armed force to keep refugees out?

 

Your error here is the binary presumption that anyone who criticizes Israel for the bad things it is doing to Gazans must be on the side of repressive Islamic regimes.
The truth is that somebody doing bad things doesn't make somebody else doing slightly less bad things ok.

 

Many of them clearly are. Hamas won an election. Think.

Do you support Egypt's decision to bar the entry of refugees with military force?

 

Hamas won an election before half of today's Gazans were born. And even in winning that election, there would have been plenty of people who didn't vote for them, yet you hold them all to be enemies of Israel? Why not open Israel's borders to women and children under a particular age, and elderly men, etc?

No. I don't support that. I am capable of recognizing the bad Israel does and the failures of other states as well.

 

Reality:
1. USA is a deadly terrorist gang in Gaza.
2. Therefore no reports from the west are credible.
Think it through

Ppl, let's elevate the discussion beyond moronic rhetoric

 

The choice Gazans had at that election were both bad. The existing government was well known to be corrupt.

Palestinians well know what happens when they avoid being killed by moving outside the region. Israel does not allow them to return - which is a crime.

The world's largest refugee camps are full of Palestinians that Israel will not allow to return.

Today, there are some Palestinians who were allowed to return, but their homes and property were confiscated as part of Israel's apartheid.

There are very few who Palestinians can trust - certainly not Israel or America who have long supported the genocide.

 

We often hear that Israel is the "only democracy in the region", but then there is this:

 

You are incorrect. This would not be happening if it weren't for a brutal murder, rape, mutilation, and kidnapping attack. There was no occupation in Gaza prior to this attack.

Releasing the hostages stops the response and gets supplies to their people.

I agree on the perpetual suffering Palestinian leadership imposes on their people. They are kept angry and primitive to preserve their willingness to be used as pawns for Jew haters. In all the debates, I have never seen a single post about improving the lives of the Palestinian people. Its all anti-Israel, anti-Jew, anti-Netanyahu.

In the end, we know what the ultimate objective is. They are looking to cleans the land of Jews, Christians, atheists, gay people, non-Muslims and those critical of religion/government. They have achieved this goal in most of the region. There is a tiny scratch of land they haven't cleansed yet, but they are working on it.

 

The side you have chosen to debate. Since I don't see anything about improving the lives of the Palestinian people, it looks like the anti-Israel side.

 

You are misrepresenting my position. While Israel is not free from criticism, those defending the other side are not in a position to criticize from high ground. If there is a place in the region outside of Israel that has a thriving population of Jews, Christians, atheists, gay people, non-Muslims, or people critical of religion/government, please point it out.

I have to strongly disagree that cleansing the land, murder, rape, mutilation, and kidnapping is "SLIGHTLY" more bad.

 

Nor would it be so if Nettanyahu regime was awake on that day and aware of what was going on to stop it, or if Nettanyahu regime wasn't so bloodthirsty and indiscriminate in its aggression.

That depends on how you define occupation. Israel was controlling what went in and out of the area, cut off all naval access, etc.

I ask again, why do you believe that? I see no reason to believe that. And if the hostages are released, and Nettanyahu regime keeps up the brutality, what would you say then? Would you criticize the regime or make more excuses for it?

I agree Hamas needs to go. So does Nettanyahu. Only then can a lasting peace be possible. So long as these two extreme "from the river to the sea" groups remain in power, all you'll have is more violence against both Palestinians and Israelis.

You aren't going to improve the lives of Palestinians by murdering them. Nor will you improve things for them by cutting off food and other needed supplies from getting to them.
The way to peace isn't with more guns. It is with cooperation with the Palestinians who want a two state solution. Start by putting a stop to settlers in the west bank. That could go a long way.
Show a genuine intention to treat Palestinians as equals, and you will get more and more of them on side, and against the Hamas types.

The ultimate goal of Hamas is the destruction of the state of Israel.
The ultimate goal of the Nettanayu regime is the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from the river to the sea, and preventing the state of Palestine.
Both treat Palestinian civilians as expendable and disposable tools towards these goals.

 

How so? You continue to speak as if there are only 2 sides here:

Tell us what you mean by "the other side". Do you mean Hamas? Do you mean the Palestinian children being slaughtered and people around the world expressing concern for them, and recognizing what the Nettanyahu regime is doing to them?
Have you confused these as being one and the same?
I've seen hardly anybody here defending Hamas.

 

Let's just admit the obvious truth.

1. The US is a nation state that seldom uses torture, rape and assassination to silence its critics.
2. Therefore people, like you, for instance are inclined to denounce the flaws and crimes of the USA
3. Hamas is a terrorist gang that routinely uses torture, rape, and assassination to instill terror
4. Therefore no one in Gaza is free to criticize Hamas.

That is why reports from Western sources are far more credible that any source reporting from areas where Hamas or its supporters are present.
Which is not to say that Western sources are especially credible.
"In war, truth is the first casualty." Aeschylus et al (525 BC - 456 BC)