It's Time For Full UN Membership For Palestine

I can't help but notice that there is gulf growing between ourselves and our European allies on this issue with most of them taking a more circumspect approach to embracing the Israeli war tactics as the casualties mount. It's a distance that China and Russia can exploit to create more cracks in an alliance that we have work so hard to mend from the Trump years. They would be stupid not to turn our unwavering love affair with all things Israel and our total support for Netanyahu's war into a wedge in the alliance. Why are we taking any more risk at geo-political isolation for Benny?

 

I don't think that the Palestinian Authority speaks for Gaza, or Hamas at all, unless you are telling me that Abbas signed off on October 7th. Somehow I kind of doubt that.

 

Tee hee. A 2 state solution is a silly pipe dream.

 

Which 'pipe dream' do you suggest we replace it with?

 

What I said is that Hamas has stated that President Abbas negotiates Palestinian status for them.

But, you dodged on the more important issues.

Given that President Abbas has been strictly supporting negotiation and nonviolence, what has that direction achieved?

Today, Hamas has made more progress than has President Abbas.

Hamas brought the attention of the world. They brought the issue to the ICJ. They have illuminated the Likud direction and military tactics of Israel. They left Biden whining about how even just ceasefire is more than the USA can accomplish - while the US still feeds aid to Israel so they can better slaughter Palestinians.

None of these steps has been achieved by 20 years of President Abbas and his cooperation with the IDF on security and his negotiations-only approach, his pleas to the UN, so totally blocked by the USA.

 

Maybe they shouldn't have been harboring hamas.

 

West Bank doesn't "harbor Hamas", yet that has made no difference.

Hamas has done more for Palestine than President Abbas has been able to do with his IDF cooperation against violence and his pursuit of negotiated settlement.

Today the whole world is watching.

Today, UNICJ has directed Israel to end anything resembling genocide and report back on its progress in achieving that.

Today, Gaza is a world issue, not just a concentration camp run by Israel.

 

Sure it doesn't.

And Hamas wants to exterminate Jews too bad for Palestine probably should have picked better allies.

and the whole world understands that Hamas Islamofascism

so they are supposed to be genocided themselves because they're Jews?

Too bad most of the people commenting on it don't understand anything about it.

 

Before you get too far over your ski's I just want to point out that you seem to be explicitly supporting terrorism. This is no longer discussing one state or two state this is simply you taking the Bin Ladin approach to international relations.

 

No, that is very clearly NOT what I suggested.

The point is that we want Gaza to take the direction of President Abbas - cooperation with the IDF, nonviolence, negotiations only.

But, Hamas doesn't buy that, as that direction has been TWENTY YEARS of total failure.

Obviously, we all hate Hamas - don't be ridiculous.

But, one HAS TO ADMIT that they have made MORE progress than the peaceful negotiations that we dream about.

Hamas has forced recognition of Israel's direction and tactics.

Hamas has moved public and national opinion around the world against Israel's direction and tactics.

Hamas has forced the UN to take up this issue - something that once again the peace/negotiation President Abbas has found impossible.

Hamas has brought into MAJOR question around the world the US direction of supporting the decades of assault by Israeli on Palestinians throughout Palestine. What does the USA actually stand for? What ARE our principles? Why do we given arms to Israel to carry out genocide?


This is a MASSIVE move made by Hamas - unfortunately, made by their blatant criminal terrorism and the sacrifice of thousands of Gazan men, women and children.

 

It's like you almost reconsidered what you said and it's implications, then decided "Nah. I'm going for it."

I don't think Hamas has moved the world's opinion in any significant way. I think they simply unmasked the latent anti-Semitism that has always existed, that's it. What's new is that it shows that anti-Semitism is the wave of the future in the US. The young don't have the same sort of connections to Israel that an older generation had. Your Democratic Party is going to be tearing itself apart over this for the next few years until the older generation dies out and the Talib's and Omar's will be setting policy.

You are simply ahead of the curve.

 

This has nothing to do with "antisemitism" - that is Israel's claim, and it just doesn't work. There may be older voters who are more swayed by the holocaust, but, that is not a connection that lasts. It has still affected Germans, who don't see their history as allowing them to hold Israel to account.

You mention some Americans. This is way bigger than America.

What polls show is that nation after nation are no longer accepting Israel's direction.

The curve isn't going to wait for you.

 

So what are YOUR Options ?
As an Apartheid State - is a Wicked Monstrosity
And the present course of Expulsion and Genocide
.......................................... is an Evil beyond description
.......................................
..................................... Seems You've painted YOURSELF into a bit of a corner


So which one is it to be "flyboy" - ? - For which ever one of these is chosen,
other than the "silly pipe dream", will forever BRAND that Nation with the stain
...................................... of an immoral and Filthy Turpitude that will not wash off

.........................................

 

Israel knows the solution. Let them solve it without aid from the US. Germany has a debt to pay to Jews, let them send in military weapons to Israel.

 

There is a reason why the Jews have just a small sliver of the ME to call home. If the Jews are willing to live amongst their sworn enemies why can't Arab countries allow them that? It's not like no Muslims are living in Israel. Muslims occupy many government positions and live peacefully in Jewish communities. You should be focusing on how the Jews have coexisted with Muslims. Instead you choose to focus on how Palestinians refuse to allow Jews to live in Gaza and the West Bank. That's like choosing to use Nazi Germany as an example over the US. Would you have defended the Nazis right to exist in Europe?

 

So there must be a modern day map showing Palestine as a country. A quick link to that would have saved you some time trying to convince me a country called Palestine does in fact exist.

 

The "curve" never did.

Israel has been getting voted down in the UN for decades. What's new is that Islamic immigration in the West has created a Western political client class that supports terrorism against Israel and Leftism following it's natural progression of hunting for the most victimized for it's oppressor/oppressed dynamic.

So the position you hold, "Today, Hamas has made more progress than has President Abbas," is definitely the wave of the future. Or that Palestinian terrorism is good actually, will eventually win the day. But right now I'm free to note that you came out supporting actual terrorism. Nothing you say about Hamas, Abbas, or Israel is going to mean squat to me after telling me that.

 

And just like that, the left wants us to form an alliance with a terrorist group. Threats to democracy.

 

It does not have a 'small sliver' anymore. That's what the 1967 borders that the UN General Assembly keep reminding Israel it needs to return to entailed. The history of this country represents nothing but one land grab after another, and this latest war is yet another.

You forget that the 'middle east' is not a monolith country of one religious background but a group of them with very different identities, different sects, different ethnicities, cultures and loyalties that go back centuries. Palestinians are not Eyptians. They are not Iraqis. They are not Saudis. They should not have to abandon their homes, culture, their heritage, their existence, their identities for Israel. Its not their job, duty or responsibilty to move over and shove themselves into refugee camps for their sworn enemies either. Israel is about as accomodating to Palestinian muslems as Greg Abbot is to Mexicans, and treats them with exactly the same deference and respect! That's because Israel claims to be a Jewish state, and wants to stay a Jewish state. That means keeping the Palestinian Muslim population down, contained and controled.

Your vision of Palestinians living in harmony with its opressors is a 'pipe dream' because Israel has no intention of absorbing them all. They want to drive them OUT, and only exploit them as a subjagated work force. Think South Africa. Think Apartheid. Think Shanty towns. That's your harmonious living arangement.

 

could be worse

 

Could be better. That's what Mandela and the rest of black South Africans believed and acheived by not permitting the second class status, and not allowing themselves to become refugees in some neighboring African state. Never stop fighting for every single right, every single inch of your own land back. Never give up on equality, self determination and autonomy, like our own forefathers did.

 

Why?

 

Why not?

 

Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad on Egyptian TV:

Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots, and every Palestinian, in Gaza and throughout Palestine, can prove his Arab roots - whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
[...]
Personally, half my family is Egyptian. We are all like that. More than 30 families in the Gaza Strip are called Al-Masri ["Egyptian"]. Brothers, half of the Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis.​

https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-mini...hi-hammad-slams-egypt-over-fuel-shortage-gaza

I rarely answer posts like yours. Debunking all your false premises requires a lot more than can be done in a post on a forum.

You're fighting against an enemy that doesn't really exist.

 

Without USA aid, Israel gets smashed.