Stories of Jesus or 'saying' of Jesus; which is better?

the gospels of matt, mark, luke and john

or

thomas?




example:


1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

4. Jesus said, "The person old in days won't hesitate to ask a little child seven days old about the place of life, and that person will live.

For many of the first will be last, and will become a single one."





how many believe the stories are more important than the per se quotes of (sayings of) jesus?


how many comprehend what jesus was teaching?

 

Bash:
You clearly have not read the Bible. The New Testament is the Ministry of Jesus Christ. Hos words and instruction are part of teaching us, but so is his life and death. You cannpt understand one without the other.

So before you reject it - at least read it and attempt to understand it. You may still disgree with it, but at least you will finally realize that calling others a liar for following Jesus is ... silly.

It is not exactly honest to be so judgemental of faith you have clearly not bothered to actually examine.

 

This is my experience with coming to know God.


The other quotes I don't identify with as much.

 

you clearly cannot read or write.

is it the anal neural of being biased versus neutral?

what does matt 16;20 say?

Does it say, the neutral is anal about being biased or perhaps just cant keep mark 10;19 within a comprehension

that is what a biased wingnut preaches, not jesus. He was not even alive to ever read a new testament.

The op was asking whether Jesus' sayings are better than the stories of jesus.

are yu suggesting what jesus said is not as important than what people say about jesus?

the hos instructions must be for the labotomy of the neutral anal neurons or perhaps for the sphinxter of the anals that cant spell nor comprehend what they read

he instructed or 'charged' what (per bible) in matt 16;20?

He taught many things and many wrote many items that aint accepted in bible. Why is that?

what death?

In mark, matt, luke and john, he wasnt dead per the stories ending........

do you know where his body is?

i can understand but you cant read

Heck a 14 yr old asked a question that shared a comprehension you cannot fathom: "IF jesus died for our sins, what happen now; He didnt stay dead?"

Apparently a child comprehends more than you. Why is that?

jesus didnt write the bible, so it aint jesus i am questioning. It is people like you that i am question; the liars

i have examined more faiths that you have.

ie... i know you aint got faith in jesus, you have faith in the religion created by people after jesus.

If you trusted jesus, you would not be questioning me but answering the question of the post.

Are the 'sayings' from jesus better than the stories of jesus? (in both ideologies, jesus, god nor anything supernatural wrote them..... but what is the best to observe; what he per se said, or what other said about jesus)


are you so obtuse that you cannot be fair and would perfer making a fool of yourself?

For example; i know bible better than you and have proven that in just about every conversation you and i have been in.

calling me an atheist is like telling jesus to go f' himself.

 

So you are disturbed?

for example:

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."



why is that?

DO you know yourself?

do you know what you are?

Are you in poverty of not knowing?

Do you want to know?

 

Of course! It is perturbing to see error in one's own ways and to see others err without even thinking of how the world is affected by their actions. It is disturbing to see disrespect of God so prevalent in His creations--and yet I marvel at the symmetry and the good and the deep love so apparent in creation.

Primarily context and the focus on "self" as the impetus of knowing.

Not as God knows me.

That I do.

Not really. I believe in faith before understanding.

I believe I will know, but not until I see God face to face.

 

to enable life, is how to see the world being affected

you should see pictures of the texas sized island of garbage floating in the pacific.

it is sad

but what sickens me the most is the disrespect that people have for representing lies and maintaining the idea that it (lying) is not disrespect for any and all gods, life, mankind; existence itself

fractals share the symmetry of the living forces within the body of god.

to love being alive would be to mavel at all the living as if it was god himself

but you said below that you WILL know but not until you see gods face.

So the impetus is the same. Just as jesus (per se) taught. (each can) (of the sayings)

i aint the make believe god yet see what you seek quite clearly

if that is what you understand, then you have little faith in god

with your eyes?

or with your minds eye?

which is lying?

which can you witness and never need to 'false witness'?

I say, existence is the garden and you walking in gods body. Am i lying?

 

That is one way of disrespecting God--by not being good stewards of his bountiful creation.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I agree that intentional falsehood is a most grievous trespass.

I don't agree--the things of God are not God, although they imperfectly reflect God.

When there is a flaw in the idea, it has a ripple effect that can lead to error seeming logical. What is it that you see what i seek?

probably not.

probably--with the eye of my spirit.

Neither--one simply has better focus.

I don't know. Eyes can be fooled, and so can souls. Also, both can accidentally misinterpret what is before them .

I don't know what you mean--I doubt you're lying about anything. However, that doesn't mean everything you say is true.

 

its the worst of all commands

but of jesus' sayings

77. Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.

Split a piece of wood; I am there.

Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."


what did he mean?

kind of like believing a dude on a thrown created everything and since, 'they' (of old) believed it, then perhaps so should ..... (who)

the same all seek; truth (even when many will lie to themselves that they already know; they still awaiting)

which focus? the focus of experience or the experience of creating the dream

Are you experienced?

So even the focused can dream up a lie; like pink elephants

Fair bet.......... So then observe from YOUR trusted claimant via his (per se) sayings;


5. Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you.

For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. [And there is nothing buried that will not be raised.]"

6. His disciples asked him and said to him, "Do you want us to fast? How should we pray? Should we give to charity? What diet should we observe?"

Jesus said, "Don't lie, and don't do what you hate, because all things are disclosed before heaven. After all, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered up that will remain undisclosed."

 

Bishadi--I do not believe in writings that have been deemed heretical.

I do not believe that the God of the Universe would throw us into this mass of confusion called life without a means of guidance--the symmetry of the universe speaks to that. So, although there is some truth in some Gnostic writings, the error that is in them leads one away from the unity of All Truth.

 

and there is the failure of religion.

Oppression!

To jews, the NT is heretical.

To muslims, believing jesus is a god, is rediculous.

And now i am finding that per se quotes from jesus from text older than bible is heretical, when they make sense, but you turn away because you feel someone else claims the works are deemed bad..................... shares a strupidity!

funny.

Ever read genesis? Seems you dont comprehend the abrahamic sect(s)

I explained the symmetry and it has nothing to do with religion

quite the opposite.

Any knowledge that assist mankind to understanding is applicable, no matter who likes it.

For example; Darwin was hated for years, but the fact is....... evolution is a true process of nature, even if misunderstood within the math of the physics.

Evidence; Old testament to New testament is an evolution of knowledge.

 

That's silly. Children have parents and guidelines so that they can grow in knowledge and mature in understanding. They are disciplined so as not to fall into things that are not good for them. There are successes and failures along the way, but instilling discipline is not "oppression." In fact, no discipline, and the ability to do anything and everything is the oppression of license. It's being thrown in an ocean without a life preserver or even the stars of the sky to point a direction.

So?

Older than the Bible? in what way? Contemporary, sure. But the Bible was born out of the Church. All writings were born of the fact of Jesus Christ. I could write a book on Jesus, but it doesn't mean it would be disciplined by Apostolic succession. The message Jesus gave to the APOSTLES is what matters to me, and the APOSTLES handed on that teaching, disciplined by excluding heretical notions.

Perhaps I see the bigger picture.

Forgive me if I simply don't agree, and rather believe that the universe sings the glorious reality of God.

Not all that is, is worth "knowing."

For example: Ptolemaic cosmology.

I believe in an evolution of knowledge, but I do not believe in an undisciplined evolution of knowledge.

 

telling someone that a guy died for your wrong doings, is a lie and oppressive in the very nature of not giving that child and awareness that they are capable of both 'walking on water' and ever lasting life, not to mentioned murder and lying.

the oppression of simply discounting mankind is capable of pure good and pure evil all in one, is 'weak' to say the least

show me a link to a copy of matthew or perhaps revelation (books) that are from the 4th century before the biased interpretations of the various religious wingnuts between then and now.

show it.

I can provide a link for the line items i listed. Can you.

meaning; what i am sharing is older than anything you have to share

now that is not a belief or faith in god, jesus or yourself. That is having faith in men, people and religious adherance versus truth.

Basically a self inflicted OPPRESSION from knowledge, from what i can read from your posts.

it would be a book of false witness, because you never met the guy. Well, unless the gardener down the street is you will be writing about.

oh really..?

KJV

Matt 16:20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ


is that apostate or apostolic?

like i said................ oppression!

Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.[1] It can also be defined as an act or instance of oppressing, the state of being oppressed, and the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, and anxiety


mankind is about to destroy huge populations based on what you consider normal

quite the opposite. You like your lil'belief and the world is about to begin ww3.

what picture are you looking at?

not even worth the comment

i agree.... nuclear weapons are worthless for the good, but the knowledge learned from splitting the atom shared what mass is

ptolemaic cosmology left the building (of knowledge) with copericus/galileo, which left the religious wingnuts with a black eye, as the church was proven wrong.

ie... a paradigm shift of understanding, just like darwin did with the understanding of the concept of evolution

i can see that as being logical too.

removing the begging of homage should be one the first removals of all theologies and any learning pattern of every child. Teaching a child what 'life' itself is and that they can enable and live longer in their actions should be the priority. Then to be responsible should be the next.

Understanding the light is the foundation to comprehending all of it

and religious doctrine will be like the ptolemaic scope of the central earth; old news.

 

Ah ha! Your cards are showing!

Where did any one do that? You realize that you are merely expressing an opinion, right?

Maybe not the Gospels, but the letters of the apostles are from the 1st century--they are very clear. We also have the Didache which is very straightforward, and although not "scripture" per se, it is valid in showing the beliefs and practices of the earliest Church.

The letters of Paul and Peter--two men who knew Jesus Himself.

Of course it would! Are you referring to some "Gospel" supposedly written by someone who was an Apostle of Jesus? Do share!

Um..you do realize that in context, the reason he didn't want people to proclaim that was because it was illegal? When asked by Ciaphus if he was the Messiah, He indicated "I Am."

Matthew 26 [63] But Jesus was silent. And the high priest said to him, "I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
[64] Jesus said to him, "You have said so. But I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."
[65] Then the high priest tore his robes, and said, "He has uttered blasphemy. Why do we still need witnesses? You have now heard his blasphemy.

God's burden is neither cruel or unjust. It is not oppression to live within the right dictates of God.

I have no idea what you are referring to here. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else?

Are you afraid of the end of the world? Peace be with you.

the "why"--the "purpose"--the "unity."

Too bad for you.

At the time it was in vogue, they thought they were right. -- Perhaps, as you seem to think about your own conclusions.

How do you know you are not simply operating under another false paradigm of thinking?


What disciplines your views, or are you a victim of having such an open mind your brains fall out?

 

any can love unconditionally and murder; what's the opinion?

Is it fact?

show a link to the original docs. Not interpretations.

show original docs, not the 1900 yrs of interpretations.
The point is, there are none.

It is almost like people claiming moses wrote the old testament and not a document on the earth of genesis from his time period. ie.... could you imagine how many tablets (stone) there would have to be to make just one chapter and the 'arc' supposedly carried torah ........

they would have a pyramid of tablets to carry around

i guess you never read matt 16. In that very chapter, he said if a man deny to save his life, he is worthless.e

HE may have said that in the revised revisions of the reversal of reality but in the closest translations known, 'he did not say he was 'christ'..............

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 26&version=YLT

that is why i have been asking you to provide links to the literature of the first century for your beliefs. From the apostles rather than apostates.

ie,,, that below shares you cant read

not a person even then, saw him come from the clouds...... or sitting on any
side of any god or thrown...............

show it.

no..... nothing ends except people like you misleading

because unlike jesus, i am the name holder

read the sciences.

read what is occuring across the world within the field of 'light'

for 3 decades the knowledge of light is evolving

You may care about people liking your religion and fighting to sustain your belief.

I just want people to understand life and live.

this thread shares 'sayings' and you are posting 'stories'........ see what i mean about the difference of the religious wingnuts and truth...... ONE enables, the other misleads

 

Your suggestion that love or evil is something merely of man, and characterizing believing in God as the source of love, while disobedience to God as the source of evil as "weak." That is merely your OPINION.

The earliest "originals" of Paul's writings are from the 2nd century. Exactly what is your point? You are citing Gnostic writings--are you suggesting they are the "originals?" You seem to be.

So? There is amazing consistency of multiple texts. Again--what is your point?

Jesus didn't--but the "fullness of time" for his sacrifice had not come. Besides--people ran off and told who He was anyway.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat26.pdf

"The Annointed One" Same difference--"Christ" is the a Greek translation of that Messianic title.

That is eschatological.

Whatever that means...


I'm sorry, but I don't believe in your messianic self-delusions.

 

conscious awareness of both is of man, nothing else

the god on a thrown aint got nothing to do with love. Mankind comprehends love, with or without your beliefs. Likewise, evil or selfishness can also exist and does with or without your beliefs. But them beliefs often enable more evil on a grand scale than merely just people individually.

show them. You are taking someone elses word that they even exist because them origs are not open to the public. unless you can show a link or something that of photos of them. ie.... book of thomas can be observed via the internet can any of the gospels?

i would like to see a version so i can interpret it

them docs are openly published on the internet http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm

that is why i am asking for the same on the stuff you read

quite the opposite. the contradictions abound. For example; what are the last words of jesus when he per se died on the cross from each of the gospels? Did jesus simply just walk away when each of them books ended?

read from each and tell this forum (from each), then apologize for your ignorance

what 'fullness'? the 'revealing' (unveiling) did not happen and why jews, muslims and the majority on the earth knew jesus was not 'christ'.

i could care less if people claim he was. You believe he was and anyone reading these post can watch you wiggle out of answering questions.

ie.... the one with the 'name upon the head'

Only one!

anyone could say that to any christian and be directly hitting reality in the head. (david and goliath; takes only a stone to the head knock out the biggest of beast)

 

THAT...is your paradigm.

http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx

So....good enough for you?

It would help if your sentence structure was a little more easy to interpret. But--from what I gather, you take issue with the testimony not being verbatim--like a transcript. That's your problem. Furthermore, who cares "how many" believe in the Christ? The road to salvation is a narrow path.

No wiggling here!

OOOoooooh...so you do actually think you are the messiah?!
Wow...just......wow...

 

the paradigm shift is 2 fold;

comprehending what energy itself is (then most all the sciences change)

comprehending what life is (the ultimate quest of mankind)

could not open it.

what is the summary of your reason for the link?

 

Baloney. Cut and paste it into your browser then. It's there.

My summary of my reason is: you asked for it, I provided it.

I don't know what your point is--both have merit in different circumstances and in different applications.

What sort of "lies" are you referring to? I mean--a parable isn't a true story, but it expresses a Truth. What's your problem with stories of Jesus?

I guess I don't agree with the premise of the question if you think stories of Jesus are lies and that somehow "sayings" are any different in the way they are carried through tradition. The distinction is a false one--but that is probably because (as I have come to realize about your perspective) that you believe that the 'experience' of life throughout the ages is God, so Jesus is not God, but his words and experience are part of God. There is that heretical Gnosticism that keeps rearing its self-important head.

I believe the ship is run more tightly than you do, obviously.

 

the greek edition of constantines cannon?

you aint using reason, you further the lines of beliefs in disregard to reason

how is that? Stories are often embellished and contradict reason. For example; read Matthew 1........ the fact is the story claims the lineage to david by joseph's line but if joseph did not seed mary, then the whole lineage claim is in fact moot (there is no lineage of david to jesus)

ie.... the stories are often just garbage when using 'reasoning'

lots of errors in biblical stories where as to read many of the sayings, jesus tells more truths than what many can sustain and discount the claims based on the stories. for example' matt 16;20.... jesus charged folk not to call him christ but then fools will claim 'read the story' as to why he said that. Then i point out, that in the very same chapt, he said to deny truth is like death.

so if jesus said dont, then there is no excuse (per bible of course)

aye...... you are comprehending.

ie..... knowledge is evolving and nature (god itself) is learning of itself (mankind is realizing the unveiling)

good stuff

to you truth is heretical

i already know as well jesus claimed (per bibleof course) that 'truth' will destroy ignorance (beliefs)

quite the opposite.


ie.... to NEVER false witness, then lies would not continue. Meaning, if you did follow the rules, then the BS of beliefs would not be on your tongue. (you could not lie to yourself, nor others)


So if you did sail the tight ship, we would not be arguing. And as you shared above, nature is learning; we are all a part of it.

 

The Codex Sinacticus is from c. 350
http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/codex/date.aspx

The Nag Hammadi is from c. 390
http://www.gnosis.org/library/dss/dss.htm


Tell me what your point is.

 

sorry..... but that version you be rendering is not an original (without 'corrections')..... (a copy per se)

the gnostic docs come from the 2nd century too and dont have the 'corrections'

ie..... if the codex was untouched then i could see a greater validity but since it has been proven to be changed then i can see why it was released for public view as to have a copy of the codex that contradicts the vaticans copy, would be catastrophic to the foundations of christianity.

It is why you consider the book of thomas, mary... and even sophie as being heretical because they share jesus' 'sayings' which practically discredit the christian belief systems.

ie.... jesus represented that 'each can know' personally and likewise, each must be 'responsible' for their actions (per the writings of course)

i have read them all

and why i keep posting the same character as the 'good' of the material; that each are capable.

you know my point; each are EQUALLY capable and i hate liars.

not much more than that.

You discount truth, while i like to enable.

We are different in that you will convey your misleadings to sustain your beliefs versus sharing what good there is within the theology in itself.

The good to observe is that ONE day each will understand.

And i so happen to be telling you, YOU ARE LIVING IN them days.

 

Neither is the nag hammadi stuff.

Meaning what? they are not codified? no duh.

Can you give an example of a "correction" that you deem to have corrupted the text?

 

what corrections?

You can find the disclosures all over the codex material of the centuries of over written line items but i dont see much of that in the NH

unless you can share something

you mean canoned?

sure ...

read matt 16;20 of the codex and then read it from a king james version

share the differences.

but as far as the disclosures of the years of changed material and omission............... they are all over the internet

i could care less what your preacher or you claim.

so far, this thread is on whether you prefer the stories or sayings (per se) of jesus and you cant even deal with that in a straight answer.