Yes, Virginia There is a Hell -- Jesus Said So

Oh, you are going to compare us to luxembourg - a city state, as the basis of large scale industrial productivity?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_ove_pro_ppp-economy-overall-productivity-ppp

That one is more recent.

Additionally, please take a gander at Japan and China - the #2 and #3 industrial powers in the world - and it seems we have them beaten hands down.

Now, where are your atheist countries on that productivity list? Amazing isn't it?

You see only what you want, and teh evidence to back up your claim, that Christianity in this country is somehow a hinderance? Simply not there.

Didn;t keep you from making the claim though did it?

That's why we just went up?

And yet somehow we manage to kick out the best graduate students in the world? Yet you focus on the elementary school education? The system that ALL atheists participate in?

I am glad you hate your own country just to bash someone else's religion. Very honorable.

No, you sited a report from website that was drafted by a man who thinks tecahing creation damages society (a very unbiased source mind you) whose expertise is derived from ... dinosaur studies.

I listed the raw statistics of prison data.

But I am sure you were not deliberately claiming something was one thing when it was actually another?

I did, and like atheists the world over, all you will see or acknowledge is what feeds your misconceptions and slander. Why am I not shocked.

Secularism was created by Christians in the aftermath of the 30 years war. Secularism, as per our constitution, means an inclusive policy is which ALL view points are protected and allowed to participate and in the system, but none are favored. That is the reality of secularism.

The secularism that you are clearly claiming is found in North Korea. No religion in government there brother, and your paradise is not exactly known for is education, industrial prowess, or anything else ...

Of course, as you indicate above, you will only acknowledge the reality of North Korea when someone kidnaps you and drops you in the middle of the glorious atheist realm? figures.

 

Europe is hardly unChristian. See the recent outpouring of over a million Spanish to the Pope's visit.

Your Cuba? North Korea? Russia as an enforced atheist economy?

Why are your views so starkly at odds with reality?

 

Yes, anything that YOU didn't think up is rediculous.

Why the very idea of virtue having positive benefits and evil having bad consequences sound silly to our athiest friend here. What a shock.

Of course, HE doesn;t see it that way - so why bother acknowledging the reality of it as taught? Then he would not be able to make himself feel better by bashing other people's religious beliefs ... so what if he deliberately does not understand them? Not relevant to self worship.

 

No, it says 18,000 provided no answer or did not indicate a preferrence.

You know, people that you claim would be atheist anywhere else? Like Buddhists are atheists (even though in the survey they clearly indicate that they are not). But when you are imprison, and you have no religion YOU MUST identify as an atheist to be counted as one.

If you are anywhere else and successful, even if you do not outright claim to be an atheist, all you need do is claim no overt religion - viola, you are an atheist.

The same sort of logic that allows atheists to claim that Einstein and Jefferson were atheists - even though they were not, by their own mouths.

But this is what happens when your religion has no standards. You have one standard of judgement from criminals, and another for successful people.

Just like your presentation of evidence. Evidence that does not conform to your prejudices is simply not acknowledged. Evidence that does, or can at leats be spun to meet your intent, will be.

I mean so what if you wind up stopping right at one of the most famous quotes form the Bible in doing so ... it all good - as long as you can bash Christians to derive a sense of superiority!

A house of cards. That is all you have.

 

You cannot just throw 18000 people into a single group simply because they didn't respond. That's statistically dishonest. You're cooking the books

 

Not sure what "entire" nations you are referring to. Nor what "better than us" refers to, but comparitively speaking NO nation as a whole is better in most aspects.

I don't see you and your ilk migrating elsewhere if the U.S. is such a dangerous place to live and has all these other negative characteristics you seem to be focused on.

If you want a country that lives without God I suggest you buy a one-way ticket to North Korea, Bangladesh, or the Sudan. Oh, I forgot Cuba.

I'll start the fundraiser if you'd like.

 

Actually there are plenty of options for Godless countries. UK, Japan, Switzerland, France. All of which are as free or more free than America. Not sure why I'd have to move to the ones you listed above.

 

Well you don't have to move to one I listed. You're welcome to relocate to one of those you listed. One-way ticket. They could use another atheist among them.

p.s. The UK is not free. They have quite the restriction on free speech. Check 'em out.

 

The Anglican Church is centered in Britain. There are many British subjects who are Christian.

There are many Monastaries in France, and teh Catholic Church continues to have a powerfu place in the country. After the Revolution, and teh Paris Communes, the specifically and militantly godless have no hold in France - they have an even lower opinion of them than they do the overtly religious.

Japan is Buddhist. The tpes of Buddhism that is mainstream acknowledges a series of Gods and spirits and is hardly 'godless' unless of course, and I suspect you are, you are once again twisting standard to include something as atheist that is not - again?

Switzerland is also Christian. 91% actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Switzerland

Agh well, whatever justifies your prejudice.

 

I do believe that Europe and the USA are no longer confessing Christian followers in the mainstream as they once were. It is in Africa, South America and Asia that they greatest Christian growth is taking place. It's ironic that now the African missionaries come to the USA to spread the Good News.

 

Not that I say it~s not true, but how does one know that Republicans donate more time, money and support for charities than democrats do? Not even my accountant has a complete overview on how much time. money and support I and my business give to which charities.


When it comes to taxes Jesus wants us to pay taxes > in His time the tith, some of which went to the temple, some of which went into the support of the poor < AND give on top of that.

Luke 11 42

Personally I have less problems with paying taxes that go into welfare than I have with fooling people into believing the pharma lobbies interests are their own or with keeping people poor by exploiting them and then giving them some breadcrumbs from underneath my my table to make myself feel good because I am so charitable.

 

I have no doubt that voting Democrat will get you no more of a free ticket into heaven than voting Republican will. Lost sheep can come in all political colours.

But rest assured that while certainly being of my countries left hand voting spectrum not only have I been involved with charities here and there I can also honestly say that I have never ever murdered little children.
Your former Republican President on the other hand has not only ordered to drop bombs on places where he knew children would get killed, he is guilty of children being born dead and deformed to this very day due to the use of uranium ammo. If you can face it do a google image search on the keywords ~children fallujah~

 

"Hell" is nothing more than a leash to control the masses.

What better way to encourage people to subscribe to your beliefs other than fear?

It is a fear based doctrine.

 

Forcefully redistributing resources? Then what is capitalism?

The forceful redistribution of resources. It is just a matter of which way you think the redistribution should go, should the few take the wealth of the many? Or should the many prevent the confiscation of their wealth by the few?

So, now a higher power will punish for who we vote for?

Hasn't this been done before?


Fear in the voting booth..... is that not a fear based doctrine? Almost tyrannical?

 

The elites - the corporate media - unfairly attack religious people all the time. The corporate media also promotes atheism. Why? The elites hate to see the people worshipping, obeying something other than the elites themselves. The elites use atheism to render the people atomized, confused, insecure, obsessed with immediate gratification. Atheism is a useful tool to degrade the people.

Secular fanatics portray the majority of the world's population as backward and even insane and less than human. Atheism is useful when the elites want to justify discrimination against and even the murder of working people and minorities, the majority of whom are religious.

Religious people including Saint Telemachus, Theodore Frelinghuysen, William Wilberforce, MLK, Gandhi and many others have been inspired by their religion to oppose injustice and the established order.

The heart of Christianity is being kind to your neighbor.

Hell is frightening. It is where we end up, both in this life and the next, when we care only about ourselves. According to Christianity, God hopes we don't make this choice, but if we do He sadly let's us have our way. We put ourselves in Hell.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if atheists ACTUALLY had an open mind? If they were rational, considerate, and skeptical rather than close minded, single minded, and utterly convinced of everything without a shread of proof?

Now, how many times has this particular poster graced this forum with this desultory opinion about someone else's faith?

How many times, while claiming to be an expert on our faith, does he ignore the teaching of love, compassion, kindess, etc. that litter the pages of the Bible, and focuses solely, though barely mentioned acknowledgement of Hell by Jesus in the Bible?

I mean how many times do you have to point out that the modern concept of Hell originates with Dante and not with Jesus?

And of course, even a slight acknowledgement of Hell means that we are actually taunting atheists with the concept merely to make them feel bad?

Really, it isn't about facts, its not about the concept of consequence, its about continuously, and I do mean continuously, saying, "You are a bad person because you think I am going to hell! So what if we talk about Hell FAR more than Christians DO!!!"

Atheism a doctrine of propoganda, derision, and utter intrasignece in the face of facts.

Who says atheism is motivated by anything rational?

 

We put ourselves in hell by simply questioning Christianity.

A fear based doctrine.

 

I just wish you were able to objectively look at your views and crituque them without using a red herring to rant about irrelevant bits of a data.

 

Really?

This from the guy that cannot look at anything with a critical eye? From a poster who has been beating the drum beat of 'fear' in complete denia of what is actually written and focused on in the Bible, in denial of what is preached in most churches, in denial of why we do things - to please God and because, as he says, they are wise and rewarding.

But all you see if fear.

And of course, you are taking an honest, objective look at our faith? Even though you repeatedly get it wrong, and then just keep repeateding the same Stalinesque mantra over and over again ...

That is not a red herring - that is atheism - and you.

How about instead of making childish after the fact excuses for what are essentially insults, you actually back it up for a change? You know, explain why you are ignorant of what the Bible ACTUALLY says, but how you are taking an honest, objective look at it?

Its transparent to everyone who has read the Bible. So stop with the childish nonesense and excuses.

Honestly, many atheists act like 12 year old kids and think they should be respected for it. Silly religion that atheism is if you ask me.

 

Correction, you place yourself in hell by disbelief and thus rejecting God.

As for your claims of Questioning Christianity, or God. That is a patently untrue statement/claim.

As questioning God first requires belief in him. One cannot question a being one doesn't believe exists.

 

This post is so assinine and full of untruth it doesn't deserve a response.

 

Yet you did.

I find that ironic.

Are you here to defend Blackrooks position of a judgmental god that condemns you on who you vote for in the voting booth, or here to make one sentence responses?

 

I can question the existence of tachyons, even though I do not believe they exist.

So simply rejecting an idea, a faith, warrants eternal suffering? If so, I would refer to that as a doctrine of fear.

 

You need to look no further than your fellow Christians:

Go play along now. Leave the adults to discuss issues.

 

No, as spelled out repeatedy for you - its your unrepentant sin that condems you to hell. Just like everyone else.

Of course, you believe you have nothing to repent and nothing to repent to. Part of the problem is it not?

Whoops, see what happens when you deliberately fail to understand what you condem - repeatedly.

Go ahead, no keep making the same silly claims that we are a fear based organization, continue to ignore the Bible and teachings of Jesus as if they do not exist.

your sins are still there.