Yes, Virginia There is a Hell -- Jesus Said So

A strange phenomenon has crept into Christianity.

What I am talking about people who believe in God and heaven, but don't believe in hell.

And the logic of their position is that a loving God would not ever send anyone to an eternity of torment and pain.

But if you read the Bible from cover to cover you will find that the concept of hell is not discussed in the entire Old Testament, nor in the New Testament Acts of the Apostles, or the letters or epistles written by the Apostles.

All we know about hell comes straight from the words of Jesus Christ himself, who was a "fire and brimstone" preacher if ever there was such a thing.

And last week in Mass we heard one of his many sermons on the topic, the parable of the sheep and the goats.

The sheep go on the right side. They are the people that fed the hungry, gave clothes to the naked, visited the sick, visited the prisoner. They go to heaven.

The goats go on the left side. They failed to feed the hungry, failed to give clothes to the naked, failed to visit the sick and prisoners. They go to a fiery pit prepared for Satan and his angels.

Can I say something?

That passage of the Bible scares the beejeezus out of me.

It made me realize that obeying the Ten Commandments is not enough.

Going to Church is not enough.

Being a good husband and father is not enough.

You have to do much more. You have to put yourself out for people.

Anyone who hears this passage from the Gospels and fails to heed its warning can't complain when Jesus does exactly what he said he would do:

He will send us to hell if we just go about our business and do nothing else at all to take care of people who need our help.

 

Soooo... Republicans are going to hell?

 

If we employ Blackrook's logic here that would be likely.
However to comfort this dear fellow-poster I'd like to ease his just fears of right-wing, selfish, materialistic, power-hungry, bigoted idiots going to hell by reminding him of the parable of the lost sheep (Luke 15:1-7). God will go and search for the lost sinners and bring them back to His flock. Seeing that God is almighty I don't doubt His ability to eventually even find and bring home Republicans.

 

Voting for Democrats isn't going to get you into heaven.

Democrats aren't involved in charity, they are forcibly redistributing resources.

Also, Democrats murder little children so there's a good chance voting Democrat will send you to hell.

 

So certain disabled and incapable people are doomed for Hell? Wow...what a shame.

 

Always a good point.

Wait for it, though ... I can hear the machinery of apologetics cranking up

 

God doesn't send any human to hell, people go to hell because they reject Jesus as their Savior. All your good works without Jesus will not save you. So your "much more" means squat and will lead you to spend eternity without God.

 

Christianity is a bunch of made up bull(*)(*)(*)(*) anyway. None of it makes any real sense. As far as the mythology goes it's no more or less believable than the Greek God mythology. Or Aesop's Fables. The bible has it's usefulness in some of it's moral teachings. But hell is not a necessary part of that equation. Unless you need the concept of hell to keep you on the straight and narrow. In which case you have a lot to be desired in your moral code.

 

Sometimes God sends you to hell. Sometimes God reincarnates you. Sometimes he just watches and laughs at your friends and family as they suffer with grief.

Depends on who you ask.

But why focus so much on the afterlife. A time we are completely uncertain of when we could be focusing on our actual lives. The creators of these religions never meant for us to be so enamored by the mythology that we forget to actually be good people. That's the part of those books that really matter.

All these religions were created for one purpose. To calm a bunch of barbaric savages and teach them how to live with each other peacefully. And yet all it's done is created bickering and separation between mankind.

 

I think your view of the republican party is, for the most part, incorrect.
Republicans donate more time, money, and support for charities and other non-profits than democrats do. The main reason is:

Republicans believe they can choose who to donate to while democrats believe the government should rip money away from the people that have earned it and donate it for them (usually to people that support their goals).

I, for one, would love to see a forced 5% donation tax that everyone fills out and sends to the charity of their choice, bypassing state and federal governments. This 5% would be removed from the governments take of taxes.

 

Well, TTOB. I want to clue you in. Eternity does not start in the afterlife. We're already in it. God is not present in your life, He is in mine.

Creators of these religions? I'm not about religion, I'm about the Creator.

I just love it when the naysayers bring up that "to calm a bunch of barbaric savages..." If that were the case then why do the naysayers remain a bunch of barbaric savages?

 

I agree with your stance on the predisposition of Dem's and Repub's and giving, however I want not the government to force any tax on me and my fellow citizens. The last thing we need is more government interference and control. You mention "would be removed..." Who would manage this windfall?

 

I'd have to disagree that the "naysayers" are the savages. America has both the highest crime rates in the developed world and the highest christianity rates in the world. Kinda strange don't you think?

Here is a study on the subject by a catholic university: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

Interesting ain't it? Seems to me that when you stop caring about what some 2000 year old dead philosopher thinks you start to focus more on what your neighbor thinks. And you start to have more empathy for your neighbor. You're not judging him for being gay or for being Muslim. He's just your neighbor who deserves your respect. And in turn you're doing exact what Jesus taught in the first place. Love your neighbor as you would love yourself.

I know that God Blesses America. But if God's blessings have given us high crime rates, poor education and poor health then maybe he should give us a rest and go bless someone else.

 

Oh, the wisdom of man. How foolish thinking he is a god.

 

I don't think any such thing. But if a society that worships God is more likely to be dumber, less healthy, and more criminal doesn't that say something about the blessing of God? Is God really benefiting us in any way?

 

Why is is atheists are so incredibly focused on the negative?

The USA also has the highest productivety rate in the world, the strongest economy, the most effective educational system in the world (why do you think China is sending so many people to Harvard and Yale?).

While we are at it, lets actually take a look at American History, where you will see the crime rate rising steadily as the political influence has been demonized by an increasingly militant atheism?

Now, would any atheist sit back in accepting silence if I were to press on and claim that atheisms militancy and abject blam vcasting was clearly the cause for the rise in American Crime (which has been going in the reverse direction lately - must be the interjection of Mormonism into the main stream no doubt?)

There are well known and established trends in criminality, causes and effects, and I am happy to once again see another atheist trounce these objective systems to point a castigating finger of blame at religion.

God forbid someone actually put an atheist in charge of policy and hope they come up with something that looks like solutions rather than just blame.

 

Really? Because atheists are educated in separate and clearly superior school systems?

I think the only think likely is that if you are an atheist, you apparently are an arrogant jack hole who snears down at everyone. Of course, atheism is not self worship - just institutionalized arrogance?

Tell me, here are the raw numbers from your criminality claims.

http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm

Out of almost 75,000 prisoners surveryed, only 156 identified themselves as atheists. Over 18,000 identified themselves as having no religion, you know atheists. That means that atheists represent a significantly higher percentage of the prison population than they do the general population.

So if you are going to toss out arrogance like scientific fact, well, it would be best to base your assessments on something other than emotional derision - assuming that there is anything beyond atheism other than emotional dislike of anything but the self?

I am wondering whether or not atheists think ratinality and respect are important? Because if you walk around with a chip on your shoulder and telling other people that they are dumb criminals ... well, expect to be treated as such 'values' earn.

 

1Co 13:3:

[T]hough I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. ​

Since we should all be able to walk on water, practically everyone who ever lived fits that description.

Sure it is, but it's not God's fault.

 

I would disagree that a society that worships God is... as you suggest. It is the unsaved within that society that creates the havoc that ensues. In less developed societies people are typically less free and suffer at the hands of the government and tribal malfeance and worse.

No, the unsaved are serving satan and he welcomes your support of his efforts.

 

God won't forbid it and perhaps Obama is not an atheist but blame is the name of the game, that is his policy. Based on all outside appearances Obama is more atheist than Christian.

 

Why don't atheists try actually finishing something rather than just arrogantly ripping something out of context, apparently to lazy to read the rest?

This would be the rest of it, and it just happens to be my favorite:

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." (1 Corinthians 13:4-13)

The point of that section is that a man boastfully going through and just performing charity so he can demonstrate how good he is compared to others is missing the point. A man without love is doomed to failure. A man without genuine concern for the poor, like a man praying boastfully in public not too seek repentence, but to be seen praying is missing the point.

And we have all seen these types of people, thoe who polish their public image by donating to charity and being given a big check, only to troll the depths of the warrens seeking drink, disipation and whores.

But of course, I guess if we only read one sentence and ignore the clear lesson and import, the primacy of genuine love and concern for your fellow man and how it DRIVES you to charity and help for the poor, rather than just apeing it self satisfaction, well ... I think such interpretations are clearly wide of the mark - deliberately so.

Once again, who says that atheism is the result of objectivity and rationality - because I continuously see atheists deliberately non-contextually quote things, and when you leave out one of the most oft-quoted passages of the Bible ... beginning in the very next sentence ... that is simply not honest.

But then, the ideology that spawned the Jesus Myth and institutionalized derision is probably not best known for its .... integrity in accuracy or honor.

 

No it doesn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_hour_worked

Nope. We've been absolutely plumiting on that scale. http://www.businessinsider.com/most-competitive-countries-for-business-2011-9#

HA! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

Our unversities are decent (though expensive). Our grade schools? Dumber than some 2nd and 3rd world countries.

What are you talking about? I've done nothing but cite statistics. Where are your statistics to back your claim. Show me evidence that increased crime rates are because of atheists.

You need to come up with a source before I'll accept anything.

Good policy should have nothing to do with religion as we are a secular nation.

 

Huh? Where do you get that 18000 people have no religion? It says 18000 people refused to answer. They could be any religion at all. In fact statistically they are most likely Christians.

 

So why do entire nations of "unsaved" do better than us in a lot of areas?

 

I could give 2 (*)(*)(*)(*)s about what other people believe. If you want to believe in God whatever. If you want to believe in Hell whatever. If you want to believe in God but not Hell whatever. It's a free country.

But I find it completely ridciulious when one belief argues that another belief sounds ridiculous.

They're all works of fiction. To me this whole thread is like star wars nerds arguing with star trek nerds.