something from nothing

Twice now you have added text to the quote tag, so you have no right to call me dishonest for misquoting. Nonetheless, I think it's clear enough that it was a paraphrase, not a direct quote. There's nothing dishonest about paraphrasing.

However, the important thing is not the precise words used but what is actually meant. If something is impossible for us, during our lifetime, then it is for all practical intents and purposes simply impossible.

Of course I know that you did not say those exact words. But it is the clear implication of your argument. You replied to one very specific thing by saying that life is empty without suffering. As far as I can see, there are only two options. Either you are indeed staying on topic and saying that life is empty without that kind of suffering, or you are not addressing the point that was made but some other point that you think is easier to answer.

I blame a non-existent god for nothing, of course. And it is not because he supposedly stands idly by and watches children get raped that I do not believe he exists. Youre quite right that to don't judge a non-existent god would be nonsensical, so I'm not sure why you come to the nonsensical conclusion that that is what I am doing. No, I am judging the ideas people have about god which are repugnant. If that wasnt so hard to understand then it's a shame you didn't understand it.

Youre still all over the place though? To paraphrase: "maybe we will eventually end al bad things but then there will be more bad things. Oh and child rape will sadly continue, even though we might be able to stop all bad things."

And also still not addressing the point: if man were to eventually invent some kind of minority-report like magic means of stopping child rape entirely, would life lose any meaning? If not, why would it make a difference whether we do it or god does it?

 

"
And also still not addressing the point: if man were to eventually invent some kind of minority-report like magic means of stopping child rape entirely, would life lose any meaning? If not, why would it make a difference whether we do it or god does it? "


Yes, it makes a difference. If God does it don't you think it would be obvious that no children are being raped but adults are? Which begs the question, why does God allow adult men and women to be raped but not kids? What if kids are not raped, but severely beaten, does God allow that? IOW, where's the line for which bad things can happen and which cannot?

 

If life lost any meaning at all as a result of kids not being raped (and I doubt it would), who cares? It's a tiny price to pay to end such horrors.

Lines can be drawn easily. There are not many adult humans alive who wouldn't immediately draw one in front of everyone under the age of, say, 15. We could probably fairly easily draw one in front of whatever is left of natural, unspoilt, un-pillaged parts of the earth, also. Just to be sure those under 15's have food and water when we're gone.

 

OK, fine, you are framing the question within those parameters. You can now consider that question answered.

Let us not forget, the law of conservation of matter and energy tells us the same thing. So they are not the only ones claiming this. Do we agree on this, or not?

Absolutely wrong. God did not come from nothing, nor did I ever say otherwise. A thing that has always existed does not "come from" anything, nor does it "come from" nothing.

That may be how you read it, but I read it as a bait and switch: I will answer the question of the OP, but will not presume to go further.

 

What you were doing was denying the premise of the question asked in the top post. I've noticed that you come up with some fairly creative dodges from time to time, so I assume that you are smart enough to know when you are purposefully avoiding the question and attempting to change the subject.

 

I will note that no human even viewed "nothing" as in its impossible to study of there is "nothing" is in that void "something that is the state of being nothing" so how do we know the first cause the Big Bang starting the multiverse couldn't truly be from "nothing" it only had to happen once over untold eons. Starting the mechanics of reality.

 

I notice you ignored the first question: if man were to eventually invent some kind of minority-report like magic means of stopping child rape entirely, would life lose any meaning?

 

Regarding that "first question".

That 'first question' represents a fairy tale world (if). It is absolutely something that has not happened and because it has not happened, then the possibilities of what might happen within that fairy tale world are infinite. I would imagine that there are numerous fairy tale worlds created on this forum under the generic title of "if".

 

The whole forum falls under fairy tale worlds.
IT is titled 'religion and philosophy', meaning just that.

 

I do not wish to be insulting, but I ignored the question because it's an irrational question which I tried to point out earlier. Child rape is only one of a large number of bad things that can and do happen in this life, some of which are quite horrific. To preclude one bad thing and allow the rest to keep on happening is frankly ridiculous; it's an all or nothing deal IMHO. Either God is going to stay out of it or He's going to control everything. I don't see cherry picking this or that as viable.

 

Why not? You've given no reason at all why not.

 

Most people would call it a hypothetical, but fair enough.

 

So you enjoy engaging in "fairy tale worlds" and arguing what is right and what is wrong or what should be and should not be? In that case the whole foum is irrelevant as seen from your eyes, because the forum represents a 'fairy tale world'. Interesting.

 

Seriously? I need to give you a reason why child rape cannot happen but every other atrocity can? You think such a scenario makes any sense? I think you're messing with me, so I'm done here.

 

Firstly, I'm not necessarily saying to stop that one thing and nothing else. But that was the only thing mentioned in the initial post and so the other things are neither here nor there. But still, why would it not make sense? God is supposedly capable of anything, she could of course stop that one thing if she wanted to, regardless of whether she decided to stop anything else as well. The only question is, why doesnt she, if she exists.

Shame you gave up before giving us a better answer than essentially "child rape gives meaning to life".

 

Shame! You must be talking about some lesser god when you make reference to "she". You simply cannot be speaking about the God of Abraham... The Father.

 

Well, the OP just said "theists", not Christians or even Abrahamic religionists. I'm trying to keep it relatively general.

 

Well yes, that can be a relatively reasonable explanation. OK.

 

Interesting at times. But engaging in jabber about what may be or what may not be is 'fairy tale worlds', your words not mine. Nothing physical about religious beliefs or philosophical beliefs.

 

Well if you are only concerned with the physical nature of things, then why spend time of a forum directed toward such things as 'religion' and 'philosophy' if you say that "Nothing physical about religious beliefs or philosophical beliefs"? I believe that I recall reading something about the 'beliefs' of such people as Plato, Socrates, Aristotle... and many others and that those people were philosophers. Are you suggesting that those people held no belief in the philosophies that they were propagating because they knew that there was nothing physical about what they were speaking about?

 

Why does anyone? Why do you?

 

My concerns in this section of the forum are not surrounding the physical nature of things, but rather the spiritual nature. I attend this section of the forum in hopes of learning more about that spiritual nature rather than physical nature. It would seem more likely to learn about the physical nature of things that one should attend the Science section of the forum.

 

I am not interested in just the physical nature of things. I like to hear what others think about the 'fairy tale worlds'. Again, not my words.

 

Your words were "The whole forum falls under fairy tale worlds." That would translate into you saying that even the 'Science' section of this forum falls under fairy tale worlds. In spite of your contradictory statement of rationalization naming the 'Religion and Philosophy' section of the "forum".

 

I did not deny the premise of the OP, nor was I trying to change the subject. In fact, I stayed completely on topic the entire time. As a reminder, the OP says:

So, the "premise" here is that something cannot come from nothing, yes? I never denied this. In fact, I rely on that premise in my response. It is essentially a mirror to the answer a non-theist might give if asked "where did the universe come from if matter/energy conservation is true?". The Non-theist might say, "since matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed, therefore that which exists had always existed. And a thing which has always existed does not 'come from' anything. It simply is, and has always been." Theists use the word "eternal".