something from nothing

if, as many theists claim, something cannot come from nothing, where did god come from? many theists are quite emphatic that something cannot come from nothing, and very vocal about it too. since you (theists) are so emphatic about this point, you must have some knowledge of where your god came from. or at the very least, admit that you don't know where it came from, while acknowledging that it must have come from somewhere or something. you can't actually claim - based on your own argument - that god claim from nothing, obviously. so where DID god come from?

 

Are you making a declaration that states 'non-theists claim that something can come from nothing'?

 

I'm asking those theists who assert - categorically - that something cannot come nothing, to tell us where, under these conditions, their god came from. We hear this assertion ALL THE TIME, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a single reply to the question here proposed.

 

Well, I am asking a paralell question as it would pertain to you:


Are you making a declaration that states 'non-theists claim that something can come from nothing'?

 

Are you saying you can't answer the OP's question?

 

God was intelligently designed.

 

Exactly, by the Creator Creator, who creates Creators....who was himself created by the Creator of the Creator of the Creator

WHo I just made up, so there....

 

Not at all. Are you saying that Crank can't answer my question?

 

sure (+1) + (-1) = 0 (nothing)

 

Can you show proof of that claim?

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0 does not equal 'nothing'. 0 is a place marker on number line therefore 0 is something.

 

zero means you have nothing, if I have two apples and you have none... that means you have 0 apples

 

No. It means that I have 0 apples. To say that I have 'nothing' would include me not having anything of value to be considered at all.

 

I would say that comes pretty close to the value of most of your posts including this one.

 

Is a Christian asking me to prove a religious claim?

 

You made the positive claim. Can you prove your claim?

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Pretty close is not close enough. You can't defeat my comment so you start throwing out innuendos. Par for the course when it comes to you.

 

You should know as well as anyone that while your objection is linguistically valid, it is not a hard task to adapt the question to avoid it. What if you have two apples and two apples only, and then you meet someone who has the same, but without the two apples? One whose something "more of value" is also 0?

And that being said, if we accept your objection, then the same can be made against the cosmological argument, by saying that there wasn't a nothing before the creation of the universe, there was simply an absence of everything and anything. And no matter what you decide to call nothing, or whatever initial state you claim or consider reality to have been in, an argument would have to be made for God's appearing rather than the universe's.

 

The christians mostly believe that god exist outside of time on a plane of existence beyond human understanding. Which is no harder to understand than a pre existing universe. Even science cannot know for sure what conditions existed BEFORE the marble sized singularity appeared, why should christians have any idea what was around before god created everything?

Pantheist would say that the act of creating created god who then became all of creation.

Deist would say "why should I care, god doesn't."

 

I am not the one nit picking the definition of nothing.

What possible value is there in this post.

 

My God, can you guys talk to each other like... normally? Say what you mean, why does everything have to be so adversarial?

Incorporeal - he's not saying theists claim something can come from nothing, he's saying it's a logical necessity and God doesn't solve the problem.

 

if you had nothing and I had nothing and a third party gave you 2 apples, you would have 2 apples and I would have nothing

I am not saying it's possible for you to have absolutely nothing, were long past the nothingness of the beginning now, so you have to use your brain to imagine you have nothing, I think you can do that, can't you?

.

 

oh for Pete's sake... Zero is a number no different than any other number. Numbers are not entities but rather concepts. To conflate concepts with real tangible entities (or the lack thereof as in nothing) is pretty weak minded. And please don't anybody suggest that when you write a number on a page it is now an entity. It's a page with a symbol on it and the symbol simply represents a number.

 

It seems that you are making an argument that supports God through the use of semantics... meanings of words...

 

Yes. I read it in a religious book. My religion is called Doubtism.

I provided evidence, let's see you top it.

 

Equal to or greater than http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=355802&p=1063879099#post1063879099

Nope you don't seem to nit pick the use of individual words you have a greater tendency to nit pick entire postings and not be able to prove your reason for that nit picking.

 

So are you essentially saying that God stands in the pathway of logic and forms a barrier that logic cannot get around?