Breaking: Passenger plane shot down over Ukraine?

Most likely part of a deliberate propaganda campaign...

 

europeans are a 'race' now? lol

 

The black boxes putin said they could have but now the investigators have been driven off the crash site by russians under putins command, those blacks boxes?....oh ya the ukrainians did it says putin but we're not about to give up any evidence that may verify it...

 

culture is a collective term as in my culture are anti-violence shock horror iknow, its a non-american thing.

 

what part of east/west culture? because both have extremists. were you born into violence or was it developed?

 

This is a video of the Ukrainian armies BUK missile launcher which was taken by a freedom fighter right after the plane was shot. It is leaving the position that Russia said it was in, and if you notice, there are two missiles missing.

It seems like this was a false flag attack like the chemical attack in Syria, or they were aiming for Putin's plane. Either that or they wanted to knock down the Malaysian plane because of some political grievance which I would rather not get into, and decided to kill two birds with one stone by making it a false flag attack at the same time

One thing we know for sure is that the Ukrainian army is trapped and surrounded, the same way the Al Nusra/Al Queda one was in Syria when together with Turkey they used chemicals to kill their own people so we could bomb Damascus. The two clowns Obama and Kerry were busy trying to convince the American people that Assad used chemical weapons, when suddenly London told them to stop, and that evidence had appeared that it was not Assad so they became frightened and backed down.
.
Heaven forbid should our media ever tell the American people the truth. Better to turn them into a bunch of zombies, so they can stay in power. Why do I feel that's Obama's motto?

[video=youtube_share;V2XL4391CqM]http://youtu.be/V2XL4391CqM[/video]

This video and the translation is from Greek Defensenet:

A video documentary, showing a launcher BUK-M1 Ukrainian Army with two missiles to leipounn (missing) from their position released online.

The launcher is loaded on a truck heavy duty than those used by the Ukrainian Army to transport systems in the last two days.

Amateur video captured (by) Russian speakers.

The video was taken about two hours after the fatal crash of Boeing and as seen from the launcher missing two of the four missiles each launcher has.

Located right in the same area that the Russian Defense Ministry reported that they had developed Ukrainian arrays BUK-M1.

 

I'm not presuming to know what evidence the boxes may contain. However, I don't blame Russia for taking possession. What I think should happen is that an international team be assembled to analyse the data. That's the only way I see to remove suspicion about what may or may not be held in those recorders.

 

Judging from the way Obama's administration has done things, they'd be declared useless and destroyed if the US got them.

 

russia said it doesn't have or want them, which a convenient excuse, they can blame the separatists whose leaders are russian nationals...putin claims not to control his own people...

 

Well you said nothing of extremists.....so that is a different tangent altogether.

 

Your "Hitler" paranoia is funny.

1. Hitler was austrian
2. Germany did dramatically chance several times after WW2

a. It did become democratic after 1945
b. After 1990 it did get full souveranity
c. It has strong disagreements from time to time with the USA - Iraq, NSA, Snowden and...desides itself what to do.

Nevertheless I prefer an ally whatr is democratic and freedom liking than a fascist junta as in Moscow.

Russia must be punnished. It is in our european intrest to destroy Russias economy so that Russia is weak and will stop that aggression.

 

LINK: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-Flight-MH17-black-box-may-be-in-Moscow.html

Investigators say the black box will be key to establishing what downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine but the device is reportedly already on its way to Russia

A tug of war is under way for possession of doomed flight MH17's "black box" recorder amid reports the device, which could provide the key to the crash investigation, has already been sent to Moscow.

Aviation experts said the black box, comprising cockpit voice and data recordings, would establish for certain whether the plane was shot down and where the deadly missile may have been fired from.

The data and voice recorders on Boeing 777s like the Malaysia Airlines one that crashed are among the most sophisticated in civilian use.

But as politicians including US President Barack Obama called for international investigators to be given unhindered access to the crash site it emerged it may already be too late for them to retrieve the device.

The news service Interfax reported that rebel Russian separatist forces in Ukraine had already found the black box and agreed to give it to a Russian-run regional air safety authority.

Andrei Purgin, the self-styled deputy prime minister of the separatist Donetsk People's Republic, told Interfax: "Of course, we most likely will give them (the recorders) to the Interstate Aviation Committee, to Moscow.

High-level experts, who will be able to determine exactly the reason of the catastrophe, work there."

 

Your deduction is a common fallacy in logic -- "Post hoc ergo propter hoc!"

In fact, there is only one person, or one group of people who are "completely responsible", and that whoever it is that deliberately decided to fire a missile at that aircraft. Because NONE of us yet knows exactly who did this thing, we can as easily say of anyone on the Ukraine military side, the Russian military side, or the Ukraine rebel side that each group " created the situation, encouraged and enabled the participants".

But, since you've already expressed your view that he is "completely responsible", please tell us what Vladimir Putin GAINS from this tragedy! I've tried hard to see how this benefits either the rebels or the government of the Russian Federation and I can't come up with a damn thing! It has already been pointed out, however, what Poroshenko and the Ukrainian Kiev government can gain from it....

 

Watch out Putin , Obama said he's sending over FBI to the crash area and we're going to find out the cause of this and who did it ! What's that - we can't have access to the crash site ! But you don't understand we're Americans ! What do you mean , you only respect Republicans ! This can't be ,his last name is Obama not Dangerfield ! What do you mean -come back in 2 years and you'll let the Republican president set the tone . DUHH - OK

Weakness should be declared a disease , so the Obama administration can collect disability.
Another witty comment by none other ,yours truly, the common sense guy, ME
Your Daily Bread ™

 

My dear Fabien... if I were a German citizen I think I would want conclusive proof before I accused the Russian Federation of deliberately destroying a harmless civilian airliner. Is this really the settled, concluded opinion of the German Bundesnachrichtendienst? And it has been made public in less than 24 hours? THAT is highly unusual!

This is what I have seen so far from Bundeskanzlerin Merkel: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-ukraine-crisis-merkel-idUSKBN0FN0YQ20140718 . I did not see anywhere in this story where she had accused Vladimir Putin or the Russian Federation of committing this horrible mass murder, or ordering it. Are you sure?

Germany can become vastly richer and more powerful than it is now by being logical, patient, and smart. You can lose it all by initiating hostilities with Russia, and I'm certain that no German ever wants to do that again without a direct threat directed at Germany from Russia! Alles gute!

 

If you had all my posts you wouldn't ask the question...putin created the situation, he inserted the destabilizing elements, he supplied advanced armaments to them...he's no different than a mafia boss, who after he's sent armed thugs into extort a victim claims innocence when his thugs shoot innocent bystanders..."it's not my fault the bystanders got killed, if my target hadn't resisted my extortion attempts my goons wouldn't have had to open fire, it's collateral damage"...yes the ukraine(the extortion victim) benefits from putins criminal behavior but thats not their fault, its putins...if this were the criminal world putin would be behind bars...

 

Thats deliberately niave, you know very well in the world of international politics every word spoken is carefully chosen or omitted is done so deliberately ....if you really don't know that then you shouldn't be discussing it...senator john McCain not being the president can say exactly what the president thinks but cannot say, obama has to play the diplomatic word game...

 

As a U.S. citizen I share Germany's view of the situation, you are saying what needs to be said.

"Ich bin ein Berliner"

Russia is falling back to it's old Stalinist ways...a deeply corrupt and paranoid regime. I empathize with the average Russian citizen because they are fed disinformation and propaganda, and yes we may not always agree, but the free World....nations like Germany and the United States need to stand united against these acts of aggression.

 

I would compare it to the Syrian chemical attack only to the extent that both were stupid, tragic acts that were instantly propagandised by both sides to try and make the other look worse than it did otherwise.

In either case, bad individuals could have carried out the attack in question without any knowledge or consent on the part of their supposed leaders (or by a third party!!).

Also in either case, whoever did it deserves to be caught and punished appropriately.

 

Hey Fabien, when Obama tells Merkel jump, she jumps. When Germany starts having its own voice, then maybe we can talk. Until then...bye!

 

And here it is folks, proof that Kiev committed a false flag attack to implicate Russia. This recording which supposedly was between a Russian General and someone else talking about shooting down a civilian air plane, was dated before the shooting even occurred.

It appeared on Youtube, and then quickly removed but it was a little too late. Over eight hundred people heard it. What I would like to know is just how long are we going to support criminal regimes?

[video=youtube_share;28MrASx-RiM]http://youtu.be/28MrASx-RiM[/video]

 

Who or what is your invented culture. Nation?

 

Do you report to Putin directly, or are you just a low level military scab?

 

I'm an American with a disgust towards our leadership and what our country has become. I never thought that when one evil empire went down that another would rise up, and that I would be part of it. Everything the Soviet Union was we have now become, starting with the mass media mind control...

If this is the kind of country you want, then I pity you...:

 

If to take the version that the plane was hit by separatists from the Buk missile system - It is necessary to prove three things:
1)DNR (separatists) have a Buk missile system
2) it is work
3)start of the rocket was from the territory under control separatists