US: Russia 'created the conditions' for shoot-down

http://news.msn.com/world/us-no-link-to-russian-govt-in-plane-downing

Most of the news from USA match tabloid quality. This one is from the state department. "Putin is not finished"... He is doing well. Sanctions, or no sanctions, but EU will not get Ukraine within its borders after the collapse of the USSR.

 

http://news.msn.com/world/us-no-link-to-russian-govt-in-plane-downing

Most of the news from USA match tabloid quality. This one is from the state department. "Putin is not finished"... He is doing well. Sanctions, or no sanctions, but EU will not get Ukraine within its borders after the collapse of the USSR. WASHINGTON (AP) — Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for "creating the conditions" that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement. Well, as to "creating the conditions", look a little deeper. Who created militant nationalistic government in Kiev? EU and USA did it. They are to blame in the downing the passenger plain. They killed sons, daughters, mothers and fathers from all those nations listed among victims.

 

Brilliant. They pay many billions of dollars to intelligence for viewing YouTube and posts on social networks. Where I can enlist in the American spies?

 

I'm not sure anyone really has said they had direct evidence of Russia shooting down the jet, so where is the evidence of your claim that its the USA who created this conflict? The only people who seem to have gotten anything out of it is Russia (taking the Crimea). The swift and organized manner in which Crimea fell is a rather good indicator that it was pre-planned and timed accordingly to events in Kiev. It's called circumstantial evidence, but its very strong. Where's your evidence?

That is just the surface of an abundance of circumstantial evidence, and actual evidence from Ukraine of Russian C2 and supply (at least) which you no doubt disbelieve out of paranoia/bias perhaps. Not to mention the insurgents seemed quite adament about finding any of the missiles remains fast, an important thing to do if it came from Russia, and not so important if it didn't.

 

This judgment is based on hearsay and internet fakes.

 

Oh right, I forgot... the world is out to get Russia because we've nothing better to do
<rollseyes>

1930's Germany here we come

 

I'm sure I've seen this post posted elsewhere here today. Is it a double post or some systematic pro-Russian spamming?

PS it was "no evidence of involvement" (yet), not "no involvement".

 

What utter nonsense. It is clear to all but the deluded that Putin intends to roll back the years and annexe territories lost in the past. Anyone who even utters descent is jailed and persecuted, even sending his killers to Britain to eliminate those who had the strength to oppose his views. The man is a maniac, who in my opinion may well have to be dealt with sooner rather than later. Any weakness detected by Moscow has and will be exploited to the full.
The downing of MH17 is the responsibility of pro-Russia rebels and their backers and no-one else. FACT.
Is it really so surprising that Ukraine wants nothing to do with a maniac and despot ? Of course, so get real and save your propaganda rubbish for the morons in East Ukraine.
Although the West is trying hard not to let this develop into further hostilities or full war, Putin may not give the West a choice in the long run.
Meanwhile it is appropriate to impose severe sanctions, which will result in Russia being further excluded from the world community and kicked out of other shared ventures as was the case with the G8 (now G7).
What further evidence is required when looking at Putin's recent behaviour ? In all fairness, I'd say none.

 

And you of course have credible proof that the Ukranian military shot down that aircraft. That's amazing, because no one else does.

Friend, at this point in time no one knows with any certaintly who contributed to the tragedy and who pulled the trigger. Well, Putin probably does but he's not sharing.

 

I believe that today, too few facts and evidence for any conclusions. To find this simple fact I had to spend a lot of time for sorting out internet (*)(*)(*)(*).

 

Another crazy on this forum. Welcome.

You are giraffe. It is a fact, because it is a fact, Fact, FACT. And you have no proof that you're not a giraffe.

Maybe without emotion and cries try to justify your position?

 

[video=youtube;wV-IoVp4eNI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUBSmk0LsA3NC3NsuxZ h81dw&v=wV-IoVp4eNI&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

Yes, involvement of Kiev junta may be revealed soon. This is the only government, which can really benefit from this tragedy. Yes, this is actually a double post. I did not find the way how delete this threat.

 

very true i was watching cnn this morning and in a 2 minute period they said the crash site was a crime scene about 6 times? there was no intent to do this thus its not a crime scene. propaganda cnn reporting for the the views spiking up there emotions

 

Two Ukrainian military jets were brought down in the eastern Ukraine. http://news.msn.com/world/2-ukrainian-military-fighter-jets-shot-down Those were asking for that. However, the question remains about the Malaysian passenger plane. Was it an error or a deliberate act?

 

ask this question is why would the rebels be mad at Malaysia? the answer is there not!, they don't want to waste missile shooting down Malaysian airlines all day long , so its all about supply of the missiles logic rules..

 

a deliberate act on the part of US secret service intended to escalate the conflict and put the blame on Russia.

 

1. Is it safe in Irak now comparing to what it used to be during Saddam?
2. Is it safe in Afghanistan as it was under commies?
3. Is it as safe in Libya now as it was under Gaddaffi?

Yes. US f...d up finding themselves worse than these 3 parties which had a little better press in american media than Putin and this helpless and bloodthirsty government hasn't found anything better but to provoke a war between Ukraine and Russia. I do think it is worse than Germany in 1930s. Here and now.

 

We entered the Spanish American war because two newspapers tried to out do one another in the amount of atrocities they could print. We entered WWI because the Lusitania was packed with explosives and then torpedoed by a German U Boat. I have no doubt the Germans were notified by the British Admiralty which at that time was headed by Winston Churchill, and who was probably in cahoots with Franklyn Roosevelt, who was Secretary of the U.S. Navy at that time. Yeah it's those guys, the ones in WWII.

The American sympathy at the time was with the Germans. German even lost out becoming our official language by one vote. The Germans conducted their business in German and not only were they equal to the amount of English here, they also had the large Irish population who hated the British, so to get the American public to turn against Germany was not an easy task. The sinking of the ship and the Americans killed did it, so that the German business' were being attacked and they had to give up not only their language, but also their last names. The German names all became Anglicized.

Horror stories were told of how Germans were bayoneting pregnant women in Belgium, and killing babies. Even the school text books weren't free of the anti German propaganda, and it seems this is the level that Kerry and his ilk are stooping to today, and like then people are falling for it...even though we know and recognize the stupidities of the past. You figure!

 

No evidence of involvement is quite different from not being involved. Many still believe Russia was involved though.

 

Whether murder is intentional or accidental, the location of the murder(s) is still regarded as a crime scene. And with the downing of MH17, they have not been able to determine whether it was intentional or not since no real investigation has been conducted yet.

 

Sounds like you are admitting the pro Russian rebels shot down the plane. And shooting down commercial airliners is a crime whether that was their intent or not.

 

Good old Kerry. After he made the rounds of all the talk shows insisting the government had mountains of evidence and being criticized for not showing it, (as usual), he trotted out about some 'senior intelligence officials' who in turn admitted they have NOTHING other than some 'social media evidence'. Well it seems the "mountain of evidence" is nothing but doctored photos and sound files provided by the Ukrainian coup government.

According to Moon of Alabama, the most damning evidence against Kerry's accusations is probably this:

"...The senior intelligence officials said spy agencies were not aware that an SA-11 system was in eastern Ukraine until the attack had happened..."

In other words, the alleged transfer of such a big weapon system from Russia could not be seen by our multi millionaire dollar U.S. intelligence, or it never existed in the first place.

And we have this from Moon:

"...But the neolibcons in the Obama administration do not despair yet. The murky Ukrainian company that hired Vice President Biden's son is now paying more lobbyists in Washington. The bribes will flow in bigger amounts. The lies from the Obama administration, and especially from Kerry, will continue as it tries everything possible to restart a Cold War against Russia or, if possible, even a hot one.

Let the Europeans bleed. As long as the U.S. is safe everything is hunky dory..."

And this is a comment from me. I believe Russia has an arrest warrant out for the criminal Washington lobbyist who owns the 'murky Ukrainian company' Biden's son works for, because of the bombing and white phosphorous used on the civilians of Donbas. He is also under suspicion as being the payroll for the thousands plus Nazis involved in the burning and hacking of the people of Odessa. I personally consider him Mr. Evil himself.

 

In terms of who did and who committed then the Russian backed rebels are accountable.
But it is still quite vague about how and why for the rebel side would never gain an upper hand if it is to shot down an innocent commercial plane.

 

Remember that the plane was at quite a height. Those who shot probably couldn't identify what flight it was or even what kind of large plane it was. Then all it takes is a trigger-happy atrocity-prone group to fire off a surface-to-air missile in paranoid stupidity.

The question then becomes why was Russia giving such sophisticated weapons to groups with such poor judgement skills? This is just another example of Russian revanchism in action where the possibility of innocent third parties being killed doesn't enter into the realpoltik equation.