US Senate declares itself Venezuela under Democratic leadership.

I don't even know why I'm responding, I guess my heart is sympathetic for lost lambs. Let's be open and front with this: Your THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS do not correlate to my own. They cannot substitute for my thoughts, opinions or views on a situation. And neither can mine for yours. Your basic opinion speaks for itself, but if this were my fear I would have said so.

But it's not. What Trump did wasn't executive abuse because it wasn't an executive action(and if you argue otherwise, cite what law or power he used on January 6th). That's for starters. But secondly, as Trump's own thoughts and actions aren't my own they won't hamper my ambitions any more or any less. To put it bluntly and again: Unlike what makes up the entirety of the democratic voting caucus lately, my thoughts aren't obsessed with Donald John Trump. I don't think I'll ever figure out what drives the obsession over a single human being. I couldn't figure it out while he's President, and it's even more bizarre now that he's NOT President.

45 senators and the Chief Justice pretty much stated that this is a farce(which, well it logically is) and there's no way that if it weren't Donald Trump, they would humiliate themselves like this but they are humiliating themselves this way.

Even Biden said it was a farce, while trying to toe the line between what he knows and what his party has become. I'd feel bad for the guy if his policies weren't already a train wreck.

Democracy is it's own enemy, but I needn't detract from the point of this thread(which is this pathetic shitshow). I don't want "my Venezuela", the whole point of protesting this pathetic travesty is not because I am afraid, but because the Senate will be undermined for all time. It will be known as a body that hosts mock trials, it will be a body that doesn't have much difference from the House of Representatives.

The last time the United States was this low in its history was the Salem Witch hunt trials in Massachusetts. That's the last time the US did something this stupid.

I've said it before and I will say it again: Beyond Trump. The Senate will forever be compared to the Salem witch hunts, it will lose its political legitimacy and the people's confidence in the system will erode even further.





The Senate under Republican control has become totally corrupted, it has become a party-before-country Faction. It is evidenced by McConnell's rank obstructionism vs. Obama, then by his theft of Obama's Supreme Court pick, then by the TOTAL failure of the Senate to hold the Authoritarian Demagogue in the WH to account. That is what makes the Senate pathetic - and history will record the fact.

At least you acknowledge you're going to fail to convict him. And if you fail to convict him in the Senate, what makes you think a charge from the DOJ would stick? Would they even file one? This impeachment trial could be the best possible thing for Donald Trump. But for the US Senate, which the party who inherited it doesn't care for, nor do certain other actors the Senate will be marred in a pig's mud. Stinky, foul and
something to avoid.

 

I have often seen US politics as between those with hard heads and those with soft heads. It is good to see the meek Democrats with a strong spine as disgraced Republicans backpedal.

The assault on the Capital was not a spur of the moment event. It is something that had been building from even before the Trump was elected. As is common with persons with the personality type, the Trump claimed the competition was rigged. It is what such types tell themselves and others, so that they can continue to pretend superiority, even when they lose.

Throughout its presidency, the Trump kept insisting that the election was rigged, even though it won. That Hillary received 3 million more votes ate away at the Trump, day after day.

What got the Trump impeached the first time was its efforts to produce “evidence” that would plant in the minds of its followers, that it wasn’t the Russians who colluded with the Trump campaign, but rather the Ukrainians who colluded with the Clinton campaign. After all, the reason for the Russians backing the Trump in the first place was because of Hillary’s tough stance on Russian activities in the Ukraine. In that search for “evidence” the Trump tried to extort the president of the Ukraine into playing along.

The Trump defense, I did nothing wrong, it is those evil Democrats that blah, blah, blah.

Again, leading up to the election, the Trump, in an effort to justify the electoral loss it knew was coming, kept telling its flock that the system was rigged against it. How the evil Democrats were going to steal the election from it. With the pandemic raging across the country, states took steps to make it easier to vote while maintaining social distancing. Things like expanding early voting and mail-in ballots. The Trump, and its supporting media machine, kept insisting that such measures were not legal, without proof of any illegalities. The Trump even tried to literally dismantle the US Postal Service in an effort to frustrate mail-in voting. Repeatedly the Trump and its supporting media kept telling its flock all manner of complaints about mail-in voting. Most of which did not reflect reality.

Once the Trump took the lead, early in the counting cycle, it declared victory and went to bed. The counting continued on through the night and by the next morning, it was becoming clear that the Trump had lost the race. The Trump kept insisting that no, it had won. That extra votes were illegitimately added. It cried fraud, even though no evidence of such fraud has surfaced.

The Trump then tried to pressure Republican state officials to bend the election counts in their state to the Trump’s favor. That so few tried to take up its cause, restores my faith, that not all Republicans have drank the Trumpian tea.

He then sent his crack legal team to court after court, not with evidence, but shopping for a judge who, through loyalty, would award the Trump a win it had not earned. The Trump had even pushed for a rushed Supreme Court appointment in the misguided idea that a right wing court would grant him a win.

Do you not find it funny that, for his efforts, Rudy Giuliani is facing a rather massive lawsuit that he is most likely to lose? Even his daughter is embarrassed by him. More and more, it becomes clear that when Giuliani was prosecuting mob bosses in New York, that he wasn’t cleaning up the city as much as he was taking out the competition.

Day after day the Trump and its supporting media kept insisting that it had won the election. That those evil Democrats, socialists, progressives, whatevers were trying to steal the election. That it would take the people rising up to prevent the steal. Over and over, day after day.

Then came the last day, the day Congress was to certify the election. Time to face reality. There were even Republican Congressmen who know better, who opposed the certification.

It wasn’t just a peaceful demonstration gone wrong. As evidence comes out, there were elements who had intent on doing real harm to our elected leaders. Possibly even death. What would have happened to someone like Nancy Pelosi had the angry mob, ginned up on hate cultivated over years, gotten a hold of her. She might not have survived.

I think that impeachment is the least that should befall the Trump. The impeachment of the Trump is not just an impeachment of the creature, but also of the movement it spawned.

 

5% of the minority Republicans is not something to be proud of in a 'bi-partisan' fashion. Stop desperately spinning, this is embarrassing to the United States government.

 

There is a strong desire to send a message to future presidents, that the behavior of the Trump is unacceptable.

 

Nancy Pelosi has made impeachment symbolic. That's what it is now, a complete joke. She's undermined that power like she undermines the House. Her resignation cannot come at any sooner or better period for us. Only, her destructive behavior doesn't just undermine the House, it now undermines the US Senate.

Our government is beyond helpless and fragile. The obsession over one man, while Americans seek a return to work and daily life, and while we still need an infrastructure deal. It's amazing.

In less than a week, not only is the new boss no different from the old boss, but the new party isn't better than the old party.

 

I am quite certain that future history books will tell of how elected Republican officials kowtowed to the worse president in our history. That the rot that allowed the Trump to accent to the presidency runs deep in the Party.

 

It's not about the individual it's about the precedence it sends about the US Senate moving forward. "Private citizen? Yeah, we'll impeach anyway." "Our case isn't airtight? Smh, who bothers with such things." The dog and pony show doesn't bring accountability, it won't damage the Republican Party anymore then it is.

It's just stupid.

 

I suppose blaming another for the corruption and ineptitude of the Trump is par for the course. If it just wasn’t for that evil Nancy Pelosi and those meddling Democrats, the Trump would have had a perfect presidency full of perfect phone calls.

It isn’t about just one man. Anyone who studies history enough knows that leaders are those who jump in the front of a parade already in progress. The impeachment of the Trump, is an impeachment of the Heritage/CATO inspired mindset.

Global warming is a hoax and tax cuts pay for themselves. Trump won in a landslide, but those evil Democrats stole the election and are now kicking the would be dictator while it is down. Boo hoo, go cry yourself a river of self pity.

Meanwhile, in the words of Elmo, “happy happy dance dance”.

The Trump is gone and old McConnell has lost his power. All the animals in the forest are happy and singing songs full of cheer and joy. The flowers smiling as only they can, as they dance to the beat. Happy happy dance dance, happy happy dance dance....

 

The Trump was impeached while president. The process needs to play out and possible sanctions applied. After all, one of the possible outcomes of a trial is just censure.

In any case, the second impeachment is already in the history books. I’m beginning to see the accomplishments of the greatest bestest president ever. It lost the popular vote, twice. It was impeached. Twice. The Trump has done more in its first term than any other two presidents combined did in two terms.

And not let us forget how the Trump fractured our foreign alliances while cuddling up to dictators. How it took the word of Putin over the whole of the US’s intelligence community. How it routinely alienated more than half the country while playing to the worse elements within its base. It tried to invalidate our elections. It encouraged an angry mob to storm the Capital.

A trial laying out the wrong doings of the Trump, is to inform the public, and to record its misdeeds for prosperity in the Senate record. The American sense of justice demands no less.

 

His Jan 6 harangue was the culmination of months of lies meant at exciting his troops to defy the laws and the constitution.
Yes, everyone with a clear mind saw and heard he has pushing for insurrection he had himself failed to start when applying preasure on the Geogia officials to overturn the elections results.

What is obvious is that, while, in some of your previous posts, you seemed to have found light, your blind submission to Trump has been somehow revived. You put too much emotion in this. Read the less fanatical opinions you can find on this forum.

 

That's nothing that our mostly Republican state legislatures can't resolve by 2022 with some election analysis and tightening up their election integrity procedures and standards. America First Republicans did exceptionally well in state offices and much better than expect in U.S. Congress. Voter fraud is a felony so I expect corrections by the mid-terms.

 

Only conviction and removal from office removes the lifetime perks. The Venezuelan-like authoritarian Senators running this witch hunt won't get enough votes from the Patriot side of the aisle to convict.

 

Wait, wait, wait. That was NOT the vote.

Rand Paul gave a speech on the floor claiming that a trial would be unconstitutional on the basis that Trump is no longer president and wanted a vote to have time to debate the issue. Schumer blocked him and made a motion to table Paul's motion and THAT is the vote that happened yesterday:



the 45 voted against Schumer's motion to table Paul's motion, and Paul's motion was NOT to vote to simply throw the case out or not hear it, but rather, to have time to debate the constitutionality of it all. All Paul wanted to do was to win time, and Schumer did not let him do it.

Now, you can take the tack that those same 45 would probably be likely to say that a trial itself would be unconstitutional and are also very unlikely to convict, but to be crystal clear, that is not what this vote was about.

 

What is embarrassing for the US is that 90% of Senate Republicans are still licking Trump's boots, instead of going by their oath and being impartial, putting country before party. I guess that would be too much to ask of the Trump party.

If what Trump did between Nov. 4 and Jan. 6 is not an impeachable offense, I don't know what would ever be?

What happened AN? After seeing the light on 1/6, you are slowly being converted back to the dark side? Are you watching too much RW TV?

 

I thought Trump showed terribly poor judgement by energizing that crowd, whether he intended for them to storm the Capitol or not. I think that lack of judgment would justify his removal from office if he was still in office.

But he’s not in office.

I believe the country needs to heal, and I believe that moving forward on a trial is motivated by all the wrong reasons.

A constitutional question is not a partisan question. When you have EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT vote the same way, it proves that they will not be impartial in the trial.

Hatred, revenge, keeping the Trump bogey man alive for political gain, whatever - all the wrong reasons. And this group wants to lead the country now??

 

Putting the country back on the right track also means showing everyone and specially all would-be dictators that acts have consequences. Senators will be judged by History.


.

 

Republicans in Congress have become hostages to the Monster they created.
They won't convict The Orange Dude because they are afraid of possible physical violence from
the MAGA crowd, not because it's the right thing to do. We're going to see a lot more Republicans
retire by the next election. It's just sad.

 

It means the degree of complicity by one of the two major US political parties in twice allowing Trump to get away with impeachable offenses is unprecedented.

 

Your defense of Trump depends on narrowly framing it solely in terms of a single speech. I've consistently framed it this way: His actions include his loud, emotionally charged false claims, over a 2 month period that the election was stolen, and his inviting supporters to Washington under the falsehood that the election could be reversed on Jan 6, and his repeatedly praising violent acts that were in his behalf, while refusing to call out QAnon and the Proud Boys. All of these set the stage.

 

No one person is ever held culpable for the acts of another. Now you're basically alleging conspiracy, without the elements of conspiracy being satisfied. If you were to do something on my behalf, but I neither endorsed or asked for it I can't be held responsible or culpable for that. This is not a 'defense', this is reality. Something that far too many of my fellow Americans are detached from in a unsightly sort of way.

 

Read the OP. I have a respect and a reverence for the US Senate body. Too bad that same respect and reverence isn't shared by 55 of 100 Senators. Dog and pony show trials are not about justice or truth or 'finding out what happened'(we know what happened). There was a time where impeachment was necessary and important: The moment when the event happened and in the immediate aftermath if he would do something else.

That moment has passed, he's GONE now. There's no longer a valid reason for impeachment. Preventing him from running again? So the Founders made impeachment to blacklist former officials? Those who want to seek "justice" in this manner might not see themselves as a dog and pony show, but anyone objectively looking knows that it is in fact a dog and pony show.

So people need to stop with the "fear" nonsense, I'm actually objectively looking at the situation from all lens.

 

Arrogance, egocentrism, and power trumps (no pun intended) prestige, meaning, and relevance every time

 

The actions of one man don't constitute a "conspiracy." Asherah is exactly correct that Trump's actions during the whole post-election period amount to a pattern of incitement to political violence. Trump needs to be charged with criminal incitement, besides being convicted by the Senate.

 

Don't forget the pressure he put on election officials in GA to overturn the result in that state. That alone is impeachable regardless of what happened on Jan. 6.

 

Man, are you in denial. If Trump is as personally inconsequential as you like to claim, you wouldn't be so worked-up about his impeachment and potential removal. And you are obviously worked up!

- ?? What rubbish. The whole point of the charge of abuse of power, is conduct which is not sanctioned by the office or its powers. Conduct like whipping up small army of seditious agitators, to physically threaten and attack another part of the government.

What's a farce is what (R) Senators have done in the last four years, to promote Executive Supremacy: they have given the President the power to use taxpayer dollars to extort political favors from friendly nations, for the President's personal benefit (which technically does fall under the definition of bribery - which is Unconstitutional (or I should say, was - score another one for Executive Supremacy!)). And now they have given the President the power to, in everything but name, recruit the public to physically intimidate his political opponents - up to an including violence. And you are here, pretending to be all mystified as to why the political opposition would be focused like a laser on these rank abuses of power! You are truly tyranny's friend. Case in point:

Whether you are smart enough to realize that that is what the entirety of your worldview is pointing us towards, nonetheless it is the case. You are actively promoting American disunion and weakness.

The only mockery of this process is the mockery you are trying to make of it. If Trump is convicted as he deserves, it will be a triumph of political accountability in a democracy.

Whew, that's a quote that's not gonna age well...

I think that a failure to convict would make charges all the more likely.

Uh-Huh. So why all your hysterical posts opposing it? Hmmm?