Credit card companies, urged on by various state governments, are creating a new merchant classification for stores that sell firearms and ammunition. This COULD result is a de facto registry of gun owners though, probably, not the specific firearms and ammunition that they own. Our federal government is prohibited from creating a firearm registry and when the federal government is prohibited from doing something they often use private sector industries to do it for them. For example, the federal government can't spy on private citizens but FaceBook and Twitter provide TONS of information to the government on request. Same goes for cellular services and it's safe to assume that if Uncle Sam wanted to know what your diet was like they could get that information from grocery store discount cards. So let's say, speaking purely hypothetically, of course, that the government wanted to get a good idea of who owns firearms and, perhaps, who is likely to own a lot of firearms. Why not go to the credit card companies and pull records for anyone that did business with 5 or more firearms and ammunition dealers during a given year? What if the FBI decided that the 5 transactions or more threshold was justification for a "counterintelligence" investigation which, since Crossfire Hurricane became public, we now know has a next to nothing threshold for predication? What if that 5 transactions or more database was cross matched with your Twitter profile to flag you as a potential or likely "Domestic Violence Extremist"? Is this kind of data collection something our government should be allowed to use? What, if anything, should be done to prevent such use or, if you're so inclined, to make the best possible use of this kind of data collection?
"Visa, Mastercard, and American Express will separately categorize purchases at gun shops in a win for gun control advocates who say the decision will help alert law enforcement to potentially illegal firearm sales.... "Reuters reported the ISO was influenced by gun control advocates, including US Senator Elizabeth Warren, who urged the CEOs of Mastercard, American Express, and Visa to make the change. " 'Mass shooters have repeatedly financed deadly massacres using credit cards, and bank CEOs need to step up to save lives,' Warren said. https://www.businessinsider.com/vis...ss-categorize-sales-made-at-gun-stores-2022-9 The tracking of gun sales by credit card companies could be a great tool to fight trafficking. If someone purchased a suspiciously large number of guns in a short period of time law enforcement could be automatically notified.
There's no law limiting the number of guns you can buy, for one. Two, traffickers will just start paying cash, if they aren't already only paying cash. I expect this to be overturned by the courts, or voluntarily by the credit card companies after one of their number goes to jail for making a false report.
I expect it to be egregiously abused by both federal and state agencies that will equate a given purchase frequency or purchase dollar amount with "reasonable suspicion of domestic violent extremist activity".
Been to many gun store and watched many guns getting purchased. My take is cash is king in gun stores. I see very little credit card purchases. I for one have always used cash there. Most times they will give you a nice discount for cash.
The report I read stated that the purpose was to notice "suspicious surges in gun purchases", and used the $26k spent by the Pulse shooter as an example. Even if the cops had been notified and gone to visit him, there's nothing that could have been done. Of course, since this tracking is just starting, any purchase could be a "suspicious surge in gun purchases", and the government still has **** all to do about it.
or when those CC managers see how many people buy guns, they might decide pissing so many members of the public off is not a smart business move. I generally buy guns with checks or cash because I usually get a discount for the merchant not having to pay the cut to the CC company.
There's a word that describes the collaboration between the state and industry to push the state's agenda. Hint: - It starts with an F - It was popular in Europe from the 1920s to 1945 Anyone care to guess?
The govt can get (and probably already has got) 'a good idea of who owns firearms' just from consumer and social media metadata, which is entirely unregulated. If a firearms registry doesn't already exist, guaranteed its just a phonecall and hefty contract fee away. Any enterprising data-mining firm good at making money prolly has such a registry sitting on a server right now just waiting for that phonecall and the check to clear. Which of course doesn't mean we should 'let' the govt do it just because it could anyway, but jic anyone thought we still had privacy- we don't. In fact, the govt prolly already has all the data it needs for a registry. And it prolly already has the algorythm which can build the registry out of the raw 'everything' data it keeps "for national security." Its just a matter of applying the algorythm and processing the data with it, which it can't legally do, but could very easily do anyway. Such an algorythm wouldn't be 100% accurate, of course, but neither would a registry built out of actual transfer records. A calculated ~95% chance that you own a gun is prolly 'good enough for govt work' and prolly well within the capabilities of corporate metadata predictive algorythms.
That's pretty much the problem I'm talking about. The government can't LEGALLY collect personal data on citizens but private business can and do. Because private businesses collect all kinds of data and because the government "regulates" so many private businesses (as well as sets their own retirees up with specialized private businesses that the government needs for their data collection) the Constitutional protections are easily circumvented. Throw in a healthy dose of "It's in the interest of national security" due to Patriot Act paranoia and we've got a public/private network of domestic intelligence services effectively working for the government and without oversight by the people or their representatives...unless we demand that our representatives put a stop to that kind of partnership.
Corrupt govt has been using corporations as a tool to get away with the things it can't get away with itself since the Roman Empire.
GOP AGs to credit card companies: Drop the gun codes 'Twenty-four Republican attorneys general have signed onto a letter demanding that major credit card companies abandon a plan to track private gun purchases made using their payment methods.' "Efforts to track and monitor sales at gun stores would only result in vague and misleading information. This categorization would not recognize the difference, for example, between the purchase of a gun safe and a firearm." Backdoor national gun registry.
an article that appeared several years ago Purchasing a cup of coffee using cash instead of a credit or debit card, using Google Maps to view photos of sporting event stadiums and large cities, and installing software to protect your internet privacy on your mobile phone -- these and many other mundane activities are now considered to be potential terrorist activities by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). And the agency is now distributing a new series of flyers as part of its new "Communities Against Terrorism" (CAT) program that urges shop owners and others to report such "suspicious" activity to authorities. "The Communities Against Terrorism program is funded by the Bureau of Justice Assistance through the SLATT Program to provide law enforcement agencies with a tool to engage members of the local community in the fight against terrorism," writes SLATT.org, the program of the U.S. Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Assistance that is promoting the program, on its website. "To assist law enforcement in the outreach effort, templates of flyers containing potential indicators have been created for distribution to specific industries" (https://www.slatt.org/CAT). The SLATT program offers both on-site and online training (indoctrination) for coffee shop owners, financial institution employees, tattoo shop artists, and many others into how to spot potential terrorist activities. Included among the many propaganda flyers the FBI is distributing as part of the campaign are ones for how to spot terrorists at local hobby shops and beauty supply stores, for instance, as well as flyers for owners of farm supply and home improvement stores. This little gem warns internet cafe owners to watch out for and report customers that always pay for their coffee with cash, as they could be terrorists. Another ridiculous flyer intended for owners of boat shops warns them to be on the lookout for people interested in becoming certified scuba divers, as they could be terrorists. (http://info.publicintelligence.net) A few years ago, this type of outlandish fear-mongering and Stasi-style spying on citizens would have been considered a crazy conspiracy theory by many. But today, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) with its "See SoPhysician Prescribed Desoxyning, Say SoPhysician Prescribed Desoxyning" campaign, the U.S. Transportation Security Administration's (TSA) "First Observer" citizen spying program, and the TSA's Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response" (VIPR) internal checkpoint force, together with the new FBI spying program, are making this police state nightmare in America a tangible reality. article from Natural News, by Ethan A. Huff FBI says paying cash for coffee is a sign of terrorist intent by Cory Doctorow, February 14, 2012 "Earlier this month, a flier was released by the FBI saying that TOR users might be terrorists. It seems that there is another article that was recently published that says that if you see someone paying for a cup of coffee in cash, they too could be a terrorist. I wonder how much longer it'll be before drinking a cup of water at home could be considered suspicious as well." Using cash for small purchases like a cup of coffee, gum and other items is a good indication that a person is trying to pass for normal without leaving the kind of paper trail created using a debit or credit card for small purchases. The most recent update asks coffee shop owners, baristas and other customer-service specialists to be on the lookout for the enemy who walks among us (who evidently has been reanimated from the graves of the 1950s Red Scare era of blacklisting and Communist-baiting or the KGB's constant witch hunt for capitalist sympathizers or people who resent being witch-hunted for their political beliefs). In Australia they've already recently made paying for large purchases in cash a criminal offense, viewed by some as part of what has become known as the "war on cash". Proponents of the law argued that only people with something to hide would be pay in cash.
It's all about control. If the government can force you to only pay with a credit/debit card, they can control every single thing you do
because you're going to make an illegal purchase for the credit card? Why don't you do this for prostitution or human trafficking? Since all these criminals are using credit cards. Lol what a load of BS. It has nothing to do with criminals. There is no such thing as a suspiciously large number of guns. Notifying the agency that's involved in police brutality because someone is exercising their right in a way that fascist politicians don't like is not at all legitimate. The second amendment was to protect us from exactly that sort of thing. This has nothing to do with crime. It has to do with knowing who has guns so they can take them away by force for the time comes. You may not care but when they come for what you have then you'll care and nobody will be left to speak up for you. Have you ever wondered how on Earth he's get so crazy in places like Germany and Italy and Cambodia? It's people like you being complicit.
But straw man purchases are still illegal. If the gfella is stacking them up in his basement, fine. If they're headed for the nearest street gang, not so much.
I'm sure they would if they could. How would you separate those charges from the others? look for purchases at the human store?
"Suspiciously large" is a subjective term. For the feds, it's "two" for handguns. There isn't one for long guns. What's a suspiciously large number of long guns to you? How many guns make up an arsenal?
