The dangers of isolationism. What would happen if the U.S. is no longer the world #1 power.

Clearly...

 

What is going to bite us?

 

When Ukraine was part of the USSR did you have bite marks? When an administration allowed annexation of Crimea did you get bite marks? Me neither.

Is it a net positive for Russia to end up with Ukraine again? No, certainly not. But we can’t fight wars all over the planet in perpetuity. That’s gnawed us to the bone already. Our imperialist leaders just keep us so busy arguing we don’t notice.

 

To the victors go the spoils, and one of the spoils we liked the best was the advantage the US dollar has had ever since the creation of the Bretton Woods financial system in 1944. By itself Russia can never push us out of economic dominance, but it becomes more and more plausible that the BRICS countries with the likely addition of another five economically important countries could set up an alternative system.

 

How about Luxembourg???

 

And yet I've got to admit that in my whole life I have never bought anything that was made in Ukraine. As an American, Ukraine simply was not a source for anything I needed or wanted and its existence didn't mean anything to me one way or another. I have nothing against Ukraine but it simply isn't important, and to tell the truth I can't remember that it ever was.

 

The lure of your logic is insidious.

Insidious is an interesting word. It means alluring, but harmful. You get involved with something which initially is appealing , but later reveals it's horror from which you cannot extricate yourself and then it's too late. That is what the word insidious means and your worldview is insidious.


If we derive policy based on your worldview....

It will result in russia and china occupying all the sea lanes . This would encourage the spread of totalitarianism.

I'll think about the strategic Implications they would have over us if that were to occur

We are the strongest nation on earth. There is no one but us to keep the spread of totalitarianism in check. One of the missions of our u s navy is to keep the sea lanes open.

And one thing is certain you can't count on Trump to continue with that policy because he is one of them. Beware of his insidious promises which makes Putin smile.

 

Ukraine is of strategic importance in the world balance of power.

 

Well let's not it speed it up

 

Every further attempt to project power speeds it up. That’s what destroys empires. Attempting to control too much territory in part for the purpose of maintaining decadence at home.

 

No one's objecting NATO spending two percent of their g d p on their own military

But when a u s candidate for president threatens a nato ally with an enemy invasion , that's where I draw the line.

Even if he was joking, it's utterly deplorable. Despicable and incompetently stupid For candidate to do that. Maybe some ****** in a bar, but not a US candidate for President.

 

They exported our manufacturing, they are exporting our engineering and the American people are left with service jobs. The elites sold the country down the river for cheap temporary profits. China is now more hegemonic than us. They are exactly where we were at beginning of WWII. Manufacturing power is military power. Technological innovation is military power. Welcome to the Asian century.

 

Yep. They will likely take our place as we took the place of the British Empire.

 

This is where you draw the line huh. lol
I'm glad we all now know where that line is. lol

 

I understand that you think Ukraine is of strategic importance, but you have not said why you think that. Are we supposed to spend billions upon billions of dollars on undocumented feelings and opinions?

 

Why would Cina keeping the sea lanes opened encourage the spread of totalitarianism? The us patrolling the sea lanes didn't.

I think critical gender theory makes Putin smile, if not guffaw.

 

China is not interested in keeping sea lanes open. We are. That we are prevents them from closing them or dominating them. Once closed, dominated/occupied, they have power over us, power to exact their will, which includes propagation of totalitarianism throughout the world, so they, not us, can be the world power, which is their objective. It's Putin's as well, but China is in a much stronger position.

Keeping the sea lanes open throughout the world is one of the Missions of the US Navy.

I know this because they banged it into our heads during boot camp.

 

First, your characterization of 'billions' misleads the simple fact that spending on Ukraine averages a little more than 5% of the defense budget.

Helping Ukraine keep its independence from outside forces, especially Russia, matters a lot—for you and everyone else around the globe. Think about it this way: standing with Ukraine is more than just sticking up for their land and freedom. It's about keeping the peace and rules that have kept things more or less in line since World War II ended. These rules are all about making sure countries can't just redraw maps with force and that every nation, big or small, gets to chart its own course.

When we throw our support behind Ukraine, we're basically putting a stop sign in front of any future bullies. Without a strong pushback, we're basically telling them, "Go ahead, try your luck," which could make the world a pretty chaotic place. This chaos isn't just about politics; it can mess with global markets, make the world a less safe place, and even hit our wallet hard.

And hey, this whole Ukraine situation? It's not just a local squabble. It's a big deal that touches on the tug-of-war between dictatorship and freedom. Supporting Ukraine is like saying you're all in for democracy and human rights, especially when those in power elsewhere are trying to shut those ideas down. It's a way of telling the world that these values matter and we're ready to stand up for them. In order to keep friends, we have to stand up for friends, on the world stage. Strategically speaking, we need 'friends', and by that, I don't mean gooey friendships, I mean mutually shared interests between our allies.

Also, don't forget that Ukraine is super important when it comes to energy. They're like the middleman for a lot of the energy supplies we all depend on. So, when there's trouble there, it's not just their problem—it can mean higher energy prices for all of us. Helping Ukraine stay stable helps keep the energy market—and therefore the global economy—steady too.

So, supporting Ukraine in this fight? It's not just about doing the right thing for them. It's about protecting a way of life that keeps the world safe, secure, and prosperous. It's about standing up for what's right and making sure that the idea of taking over another country by force doesn't get any traction. That's why backing Ukraine's independence is key.

See, for the benefit, the cost is a BARGAIN.

That's why we should, and must, help Ukraine.

 

If we were isolationist, we could care less about sea lanes.

 

Who is this we? You use the flag of Brazil as your avatar. Brazil is part of BRICS, the coalition which has successfully toppled American hegemony. It has always puzzled me that you prattle on and on about the dangers of Russia while flying the flag of one of their greatest trading partners. Please explain this to me.

If Russia is our enemy, does that mean that Brazil is our enemy? Should we topple Brazil's government and force them out of BRICS? If a few million Brazilian die in the process, it is a small price to pay to ensure their "freedom".... amirite? Such an aggressive maneuver would certainly do massive damage to both China and Russia and it would not risk nuclear annihilation. Strategically it makes a hell of lot more sense than meddling in Ukraine.

One thing is very very clear. Brazil is certainly not acting like America's friend and it most definitely opposes American hegemony.

https://carnegieendowment.org/2023/12/18/brazil-in-emerging-world-order-pub-91285

 

Small, but fiesty??

 

Did it ever occur to you that isolationism would have protected the country from Covid? Did it ever occur to you that relying on China to produce goods and services for us, including medicine, is not good for the US?

 

Supporting Ukraine is just supporting the Western plutocrats aiming for global dominance. The elites want this war to expand their power.

 

Ummm. Boot camp is not intended to help people employ critical thinking skills on global politics. Quite the opposite.

Physical abilities is not the main reason the youngest folks are preferred for military service. It’s mainly because they are too intellectually and emotionally immature to question authority or what they are told to believe.

One generation of boot campers was motivated by the idea Saddam had vast stockpiles of WMDs and those boot campers were the last line of defense to save the planet from them.

 

We - U.S., are THE ONE.

It was U.S.

It was Regan's deregulation that allowed the offshoring of industries and jobs. OUR industrial power is growing as we again ARE becoming the manufacturing center of the world again thanks to President Biden's infrastructure bill.

Thanks again to Reagan who, for the first time, took growth of our National Debt exponential.

No, WE did not.

That's absolutely false, WE weathered the COVID storm better than any other nation on earth. And, are now poised to enjoy the most prosperous decade in our history.

Thank you President Biden.

We are not in decline we ARE the greatest nation on earth by a multiple factor and are only at risk because OUR isolationist tRumpublicans can't see the end of their nose and are too busy getting even to take time out to govern.