The dangers of isolationism. What would happen if the U.S. is no longer the world #1 power.

You get pissy for me saying “please re-read” and respond by saying I’m giving orders? I asked you to consider what you wrote and think it over. I gave no order.

Please quote where I’ve said I have any authority over you! I ASKED a simple thing.

How is me asking you to reconsider worse than you asking me to not do a thing I didn’t even do?

Few qualify for asylum or refugee status. Around 10%. The rest request asylum fraudulently which is a crime under our laws.

Yep.

Because there is no opportunity in China contrary to your idea they have desire for a border problem like ours. They have no jobs for immigrants and they don’t want immigrants diluting the blood of the children of the dragon. They certainly have NO desire for a border problem like ours.

Don’t care about partisan bickering. Neither party wants a solution. Neither has wanted one for decades. You think now magically they want a solution? Either party?

Really? I had no idea….

There is a very serious lack of knowledge of immigration demonstrated in these threads. I figure if ya’ll are going to be voting based on the issue maybe I ought to interject some facts so ya’ll aren’t voting on completely unsubstantiated opinions.

It’s certainly a strawman to say I’m criticizing BORDER (not boarder) patrol. I’ve never said or inferred I have any complaints about BORDER patrol. Border patrol doesn’t decide what laws to enforce. They do what they are told by their superiors.

If you continue to accuse me of criticizing border patrol without evidence we will have to assume you are being disingenuous.

Yes. Sorry I have NO interest in your strawman arguments and false unsubstantiated accusations. But as you continue to double down on fallacy I’ll probably cease being sympathetic.

You are entitled to your opinion. I couldn’t care less about either party.

They aren’t taxpayers? Who isn’t accommodating them? What you need to do is convince places like NYC and Chicago and DC to send buses to the border and cash in on all that tax revenue. They need it.

No one will stop me from not responding? OK. Did I say anything about not wanting to respond? SMH.

They are a problem? Filling tax coffers is a problem? You said they are intent on helping you. That’s a problem?

 

Immigrants built this country.

My point is this:

No, I think we should figure out how to deal with the "problem" BY "making it a solution"

You have no "facts" just RW bias.

The BORDER patrol has autonomy to control the BORDER. (I know the difference my left little finger doesn't ... obviously.)

what you "think" of me ...

Sure.

"They" AbsaByGodLutely ARE!

So much for your vast knowledge of immigration.

No, all I can do is vote.

You can shake your head all you want, nobody's going to stop you. Maybe that's why you appear to be so disoriented.
(hint; it's a joke, a paraphrase of a Yogi-ism)

Only because we make them one, instead of trying to make them a solution.

Always has been????

I didn't say that.

The problem is we're making a solution we've always depended on ... "a problem".

Goodbye.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(means I'm done discussing this with you)

 

Yep. New strawman fallacy from you duly noted.

Interesting. He says the economy is shot. That’s what I said. Currently the young person unemployment rate in China is 14%. They desperately need young immigrants. Obviously.

Why not just enforce the laws we have so we get good, vetted immigrants legally? Nothing to figure out.

LOL. Sure. RW bias from a socialist who loathes both parties and said the problem has existed under all administrations regardless of party.


Here are facts I’ve shared recently in immigration.

No bias. Just verifiable facts countering ignorance and bias I see on PF.

They are told what to do by the DOJ (Dept of Justice). They do not make decisions on what laws to enforce or not enforce. It’s above the pay grade of border patrol.

Irrelevant to the fact you can’t substantiate false accusations you’ve made. I’m unconcerned if you tarnish your reputation by making unsubstantiated accusations.

I care nothing for partisanship. Im unaffiliated and loathe both parties.

Bet you can’t quote me saying immigrants don’t pay taxes! You implied they aren’t. I never did. QUOTE ME or further destroy the last shreds of your credibility.

Good luck finding someone to vote for that will send buses to the border to snatch up immigrants to fill their tax coffers. LOL

No disorientation here. All facts. If I APPEAR disoriented it must be a problem with the observer. You are welcome and encouraged to present evidence anything I’ve posted on immigration is incorrect or not based on evidence. Good luck!

I’m not making them a problem.

Filling tax coffers isn’t a problem. Deficit spending is a problem.

Sure you did.

You aren’t American? Not part of us?

Who is?

Yeh, few people want to discuss facts. Add you to the list….yawn.

 

I understand - I've made the comparison myself and I'll make it again momentarily - and sadly I think your characterization of the United States as a 'weakened and exhausted empire that doesn't know it yet' is painfully accurate. To make matters worse, the refusal to know, acknowledge and respond to this is only going to hasten and aggravate the severity of our decline, and I take no pleasure or gratification in saying that.

It's strange - I get that Neocons are always going to be the 'liberal' warhawks that they are, but why wouldn't the rest of the American people welcome the opportunity to stop playing World Police and expending the vast amounts of blood and treasure we have spent since Woodrow Wilson dragged us into World War I? Sure, there is a degree of pride and prestige that comes with being a superpower, but is the vanity worth the expense? Bottom line, we don't need to be doing this anymore. Maybe in 1949 we did, but not anymore.

Unfortunately, I'm inclined to believe you. What I personally perceive as the core problem with our country is a problem that has to be solved at the individual human level - there's little to nothing our political system can do to fix it, and in many respects this is one place where we can find a fitting analogy in Rome. Most Americans today are nothing like the men and women who settled this country and founded the Republic, just as the Romans who watched Alaric and his army stroll through the Salarian Gate in 410 AD were nothing like the Romans who founded their empire a thousand years earlier. I would love to think we could be different but the prospects don't inspire much if any optimism and confidence.

 

Hilarious, but go ahead with it.

 

I think the answer to your question, besides the obvious vanity of it, is that there are no perceived costs. We are not actually paying anything for our empire building. Well we are by racking up staggering debt, but that bill has not been called due yet. If for every crusade we got an automatic increase in taxes to pay for it it would change the conversation.

 

Our nation is better placed for success in the next decade than any other on earth.

 

Yup, and if people realized how that spending and debt contributes to the inflation that is currently making their lives more difficult that might help focus their attention.

I guess one good thing that's come out the Border Security-Ukraine/Israel funding kerfuffle is that people are actually starting to have this conversation, which is what - almost thirty years after Samuel Huntington wrote his seminal book about the changing power dynamics of the post-Cold War era?

And as you and others have pointed out, it's the TDS-fueled phony peaceniks on the Left who are resisting all this because they demand that U.S. foreign policy should be based on their failed and debunked Russia Kolllooozhiun Conspiracy theory/hoax. Of all the things our foreign policy should be based on, mental illness is not one of them.

 

Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better
https://medium.com/world-economic-f...y-and-life-has-never-been-better-ee2eed62f710

Stakeholder Fascist Joe will make it so....

“It’s way past time to put the end to the era of shareholder capitalism."

 

Weasel words. What are weasel words? vague generalities/assumptions that cannot be substantiated which precludes coherent thought and expression, the kind that are required in a merit worthy argument.

That you are doing it defeats your stated objective.

Yes,. You have the right to miss the point and pettifog the debate, and post off point.

I have the right to indicate you are doing it.

And I will do that as long as you continue doing it.

Now then, in your incessant pettifog, you made one point that is worthy of comment, this:

China would cease to exist if sea lanes were shut down.

You have drawn an incorrect inference.

"Keeping the sea lanes open', does not imply China wants to close the sea lanes, it means not letting China, or anyone, control/dominate them (in international waters).

 

Luddites unite! Welcome to the tired tropes of right wing strawman arguments.

You do realize some made similar arguments when the automobile was first introduced.

conservatives always resist progress, by attempting to 'predict' some dystopian reality that never actually comes, in some vague hope of preventing the inevitable, called 'progress'.

Into the future conservatives kicking and screaming they go.

Get over it.

 

Can you give us a link to validate your claim, confirm that you didn't just make this up because it was convenient, and to explain exactly what it is that you are referring to?

 

I'm going to assume you find this concept anathema? I think the vast majority of Americans do or would if the were aware of it. My father-in-law first brought this to my attention over 30 years ago when a fellow physician proffered it to him. The world, especially U.S., is no closer to it now than than, or will be in 2030 or 30 years from then.

And, President Biden or American liberals want no part of it either. Capitalism isn't the problem, wasn't the problem. U.S. had found a balance between unbridled capitalism and socialism until Reagan/Freedman, trickle-down and voodoo undermined that balance, deregulated everything and destroyed America's place as the worlds manufacturer. Since then the attempt to end Government BY the People has continued with the gutting of our tri-cameral government by undermining institutions we've always depended on to make and keep us great.

There is a coalition of wealthy that want to "own" everything and everyone. It's not the "left" or "ibbies" or "progressives" or even "socialists" that are the enemy of our nation. It's the privileged few like tRaitor tRump and the people behind him that want to end our Constitutional Government BY the PEOPLE and create a dictatorship they control. If that happens you won't have to worry about the end of private ownership and "common possessions" because you'll BE one. IF they let you live.

 

I thought your position is that we were already ascending?

 

Ha, too late!

 

Stakeholder Fascists circle the wagons - Der Führer has been exposed!!

Welcome to 2030. You are better placed for "success" in the next decade than anyone else on earth: You'll own nothing, you'll have no privacy, and your life will never have been better, and Stakeholder Joe will make it so.

FORWARD to serfdom!!

I realize that the freedom loving people of Italy and Germany opposed the fascists who attempted to impose their stakeholder brand of socialism on them.

Will the freedom loving people in America who oppose them here be getting shot, too?

The stakeholder fascism that Joe Biden and his "progressive" comrades embrace - perhaps yourself, as well? - is not progress. It is a regressive Great Leap Backward to the authoritarianism of the 1930s.

Stakeholder fascists never change.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose...

 

"We" ARE the current pinnacle and are in excellence position to remain the pinnacle of world powers.

 

I directly addressed your comments on boot camp. If you don’t want boot camp discussed then don’t use boot camp as evidence for a claim.

You can moan about your content being addressed all you want. The only way it won’t be addressed is if you post it in the private message section. If you post it here I’ll comment on it.

Simple stuff.

This is a public forum and you claimed to know a thing is true based on boot camp. LOL

Well, dude. YOU brought up China closing sea lanes.

Unbelievable. Stop digging.

 

Well.. there you go. Because Ukranians have certainly bought from US. Being involved in the global market benefits us more than it benefits anybody else. Because, as you have just proven, they buy from us even if we don't buy from them.

I suspect that the people who less understand what isolationism is are the isolationists.

 

"What if" speculation about Covid is a pretty sure bet because ANYTHING would have likely protected us better against Covid than what Trump did: including denying it existed at the worst possible moment.

 

Ummmmmm, Trump is the one who fast tracked the vaccine, you know, the vaccine that you guys said was so good that you had to either get it or get fired from your job and not allowed to go out in public without your vaccine papers. Also, the very same vaccine that while Trump was president you guys told all Americans not to get the Trump rushed vaccine.

 

Trump was the only one who COULD fast track the vaccine.

And yet, he did it at the worst possible pace. He undermined his own science advisors and even fired the government liaison with the companies developing the vaccine. He undermined science in favor of voodoo remedies. The pharmaceutical companies that worked with him were NOT the first to have the vaccine (pharmaceuticals working independently got it first). And when the vaccine finally did come out, he did NOTHING to promote its usage.

So no... I say again: anything that anybody would have done in his place would have been better than what Trump actually DID. This is why we had the MOST deaths of any developed nation in the world. We could not possibly have done worse than we did with the orange idiot. And you can be sure that if he were to get himself reelected, he would manage to mess up something that not even a president who it 7 would get wrong (with all due respect to 7 year olds for comparing them to this moron)

Covid was easy. All he needed to do was rely on scientists. And he couldn't even do THAT. Imagine if this guy had to make REAL decisions.... Complete disaster!

 

LOL. He did it at the worst possible pace when all of you were telling Americans not to get the Trump rushed vaccine? Now that's funny. You got anything else I can laugh at?

 

What nonsense. I have said no such thing.

 

Meaningless point:
1. He's the only one who can fast track it, as president.
2. All presidents would have fast tracked it, so this is not a bragging point.

The government would be derelict if it didn't try and protect the public from the spread of disease, so your complaint withers.

I have no idea what you are talking about.