Should Trump be held in pretrial detention?

Link please.

 

Why don't you know this?...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ott McAfee dismissed six charges as too vague.

 

I believe Trump is taunting the judge, that he wants the judge to order him to pretrial detention, which he would exploit to his political advantage.

Well, I think the argument boils down to whether criminal defendants are or are not subjected to excessive bail requirements or cruel and unusual punishments, right?

Argument for Pretrial Detention:

Risk to Public Safety: Trump’s inflammatory rhetoric and statements pose a significant risk to public safety. His influence over a large following and his history of encouraging aggressive behavior could potentially incite violence or intimidation against witnesses, the judge, and others involved in the case.

Witness Intimidation: Trump’s comments may directly or indirectly intimidate witnesses, making them hesitant to testify truthfully. Witness intimidation undermines the integrity of the legal process and obstructs justice.

Flight Risk: Given Trump’s prominence and access to resources, there is a legitimate concern that he might attempt to flee the country to avoid facing trial. Pretrial detention would mitigate this risk. However, I don't think there is a risk here.

Preserving Judicial Independence: Trump’s targeting of the judge and his daughter undermines the independence of the judiciary. Detaining him pretrial would signal that such behavior is unacceptable and protect the integrity of the judicial system.

Preventing Obstruction of Justice: Trump’s statements could be seen as an attempt to obstruct justice by influencing the case’s outcome. Detention would prevent further interference.

So, Trump’s actions and statements create a compelling case for pretrial detention to ensure public safety, protect witnesses, and maintain the integrity of the legal process. However, it ultimately rests with the court to weigh these factors and make an informed decision. Thing is, I am not seeing a robust rebuttal with your mere mention of the 8th amendment.

 

Guy Rivera wasn't subjected to pre-trial detention for a gun charge. But Trump? He should go to jail for misdemeanor charges...lol

 

Risk to public safety: He still gets private communications with his lawyer, and he still gets to send letters out. His speech isn't going to be curtailed at all, unless you've got a gag order and can hold "I'll lock you in a box" over him.

Witnesses: See above.

Flight risk: Ankle bracelets and taking his jet and passport tend to fix that. You'd need far more than "he's rich and was president once" as far as criminal acts and resources goes to use that. Hell, he hasn't even claimed he'd flee or anything. You don't even have that. You simply assume he'll run. The law doesn't allow that presumption.

In point of fact denying him his constitutional right to bond will not help judicial integrity, only harm it.

See above: He gets to talk or send letters from prison anyway man. You can't stop him communicating with people. About the best you can do is a valid gag order pre trial.

 

It depends on conduct.

 

It is a completely valid summation of the idea proposed in the OP he forgot totalitarian third world nonsense but was still fairly accurate in his summation none-the-less, which pretty much what you get with MSDNC today.

 

I know about that Mr Kelsoe. You said that the telephone call had been ruled out. It has not......yet.

Your words:

Incorrect.

 

Oh?...

"The six charges dismissed were related to soliciting elected officials to violate their oaths of office. That includes two charges related to the phone call Trump made to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, a fellow Republican, on Jan. 2, 2021."

https://www.atlantanewsfirst.com/20...ce-case-dismisses-some-charges-against-trump/

 

Those are all so far fetched. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you post far out **** like that?

A flight risk? Why would Trump leave the country and his security detail behind? Can you see how ridiculous you sound? The dude has (had) 91 counts against him. If he was going to haul ass, he would have already done it...lol

 

This is exactly the problem with democrats and their anti-free-speech mindset that stating one's opinions and excersizing our God given right to criticize government is somehow equavalent to threats and violence.

Democrats that think this way are anti-american.

 

Maybe, maybe not. I think these judges are going out of their way to give him the benefit of the doubt, which the would not give to anyone as rich and powerful has he.

What good is a gag order if it isn't enforced? It looks to me like there are several out now, and they are not enforcing it.

 

This:

Preposterous claptrap garbage

Is a non substantive argument. It's not really an argument at all. There is no argument stated, no path of reasoning, no substantiation, nothing but an empty declaration, nothing offered to buttress that point of view. It's just a vacuous declaration, which has no merit in the debate arena. Any moron can do that. I could, too, and where would we go? So, You say "garbage' and I say to you 'garbage retort' and what kind of real debate is that? It isn't.

It's only objective is to kill the debate, not to move it forward.

Arguments that do not move a debate forward are, in my book, not merit worthy arguments.

Even bad argument is merit worthy, but one that doesn't move the debate forward whatsoever is not.

Yours is not.

Either put some effort into it, or, please abstain from posting in this conversation.

 

He is a criminal defendant, and as such, his free-speech rights are subject to court rules.

That's democracy, like it or not.

If you are against that, then it is YOU who are anti-American.

 

No one ever claimed it was offered as an argument. It was and apt appraisal or summation of the garbage offered in the OP and no one cares that you do not approve at this point. You should by now expect such appraisals when you offer up the garbage that is daily cycled through the sphincters of the idiots at MSDNC

 

That you would even say this just demonstrates that Republicans have no regard for the rule of law.

 

Trump should be held in detention but he won't be. But what the judge WILL do is make his jury anonymous to protect them, and that will greatly hurt Trump's defense. Knowing who the jury is composed of is valuable information to a defense team.

 

The phone call has NOT been ruled out. It is still capable of being used as evidence in support of charges which remain, and to support amended charges which fix the fault the Judge identified.

 

The idea has merit. As Trump continues to threaten judges , their families and anyone in the legal system.......he is creating havoc in one of the most critical systems that hold this society together. He is a danger, everting h s insinuates, incites, or otherwise "suggests" violence in revenge for his perceived victimhood. The problem is that with as may followers that he has , they would be inclined for violence as they would say he was being mistreated, by the very law that is supposed to work for everyone else. They have made him an exception and have idolized him . His supporters have a history of violence when it comes to dong what he wants or defending him. They are not taking kindly to him being PROSECUTED at all, can one imagine their reaction if a detention was in effect. ( even if the idea has merit ..for legal reasons, and quite frankly societal reasons too ) His threats will continue, some of his followers will act on them. and targeted people will have to live under stress and more security. But then Trump could care less. The only person that matters to him is HIM. .... and on the Trump theater will go.

 

Why not??

That is a very big claim / prediction to make........ what is the substance behind it??

 

Find a real argument please, not your vacuous drivel.

 

IF another rich guy did what Trump is doing and has done , would there even be a discussion about what should be done?? No right is ABSOLUTE, NO person is an exception to the law. and to claim that Trump is being unjustly "persecuted" is living outside the realm of reality. The issue is that his followers BELEIVE what he says. They don't bother to analyze it, think it through, with balanced objectivity.

The only other avenue that is worth considering is him being treated for his anger at a mental health care facility. ( a very private one) They can then consider trying to treat his serious personality disorder.
The fact is that he is a dagger as he is a catalyst for violence in his tribe. His threats have been acted on. If people cannot see that.......then the problem is bigger than just politics.

 

It is disheartening that the Judge would have to go to such extremes to protect the jury. Yet. .there is no reasonable alternative....... for their safety's sake. Trump has pushed and twisted the boundaries of the legal system so much......one can only hope it survives. He is a danger to the systems that hold true and make this nation what it is. He has also brought out the very worst in humanity* (some). And this is perilous in a democracy.

 

For the long term health of the nation don't jail him until after conviction and even then give him the chance to flee into exile. Sure some will see it as persecution but most will see him for what he is, soaking the populace for all he can and then running. Maybe then we can heal the separations.

 

Offer an argument rather than MSDNC's petulant whining about all things Trump