Acceptable number of Gazans for Israel to have killed in year after Oct.7th?

It would have been pretty easy for Netanyahu to at least state publicly that the Palestinians who fled their homes would be allowed to return, and that he wouldn't allow Israeli settlers to move in.

That he didn't do so makes it pretty plausible that he doesn't intend that, and does intend to steal their land.

 

I should certainly HOPE that Israel acts in its own best interests. That's what countries do. France does that. Germany does that. Italy does that. Australia does that. Brazil does that. ALL COUNTRIES DO THAT.

 

America helps Israel. Israel helps America. That's what allies do.

 

Hamas doesn't attack Palestinian civilians. Hamas doesn't kill Palestinian families. The Palestinians voted Hamas into power in Gaza. Nazis didn't kill Hitler supporters either.

 

I would add the word "fascist" to the founding generation of Zionists:

https://prospect.org/world/2024-02-21-neglected-history-state-of-israel/

"In 1928, a prominent Revisionist named Abba Ahimeir published a series of articles entitled 'From the Diary of a Fascist.'

"They refer to the founder of their movement, Ze’ev Jabotinsky (his adopted first name is Hebrew for 'wolf'), as 'il duce.'

"In 1935, his comrade Hen Merhavia wrote that Revisionists were doing what Mussolini did: 'establish a nucleus of an exemplary life of morality and purity. Like us, the Italian fascists look back to their historical heritage. We seek to return to the kingdom of the House of David; they want to return to the glory of the Roman Empire.'

"They even opened a maritime academy in Italy, under Mussolini’s sponsorship, for the navy they hoped to build in their new Israeli state. '[T]he views and the political and social inclinations of the Revisionists,' an Italian magazine reported, 'are absolutely in accordance with the fascist doctrine … as our students they will bring the Italian and fascist culture to Palestine.'"

 

Can you provide any examples of how Israel "helps" the US?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-to-retaliate-israeli-bombing-syria-consulate-officials-believe/

 

@robini123
"Israel was killing more civilians than Hamas"
How did you come to that conclusion?

 

Which to me seems like all the more reason for the Palestinians not to support terrorist groups who provoke them. But even considering all that, it's still so one sided. Folks expecting Israel to not respond or not protect it's people, but nobody is expecting the Palestinians to have to make changes too. If the Palestinians weren't support terrorists, this would be far more clear cut and condemnation of Israel would be fully justified.

 

Can you imagine Russia sending supplies to Germany in the middle of WWII? Crazy.

 

Cowards.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...ng-al-shifa-hospital-run-military-2023-11-14/

 

I would expect more of Palestinians if they had the guns, but this Hamas govt and its terrorist wings have them and the bullets, and the authority of title and political power due to an election twenty years ago. the bombs are not killing the same people who voted then everyone is now at risk for hunger regardless of that ballot choice back when George Bush was our President, and they haven't had a chance to change their minds as often as we have, and all of Europe has, and Japan has.

 

you're the one that brought it up FF

 

The Palestinians have made changes. These people are literally out of their homes living huddled together in a refugee camp that is now also under fire. Half of them are children born long after Hamas came to power and powerless to do anything against Hamas.

Seriously, if you were one of them would you consider those bombing you and killing people around you to be your friend? At this point it's a coin toss whether a Hamas fighter or Israeli soldier would be more likely to shoot or feed such a child.

Is it any surprise that many will grow up to hate Israel and join Hamas? In their shoes with roles reversed I think many ardent Israel supporters would.

 

you were the one brought up arms contribution in WW2 .. not me -- try harder to remember what you say.

 

I think you misread what you quoted there. He said Israel acts against its own best interests with these tactics. Israel should be acting in its own best interests. It isn't.

 

Post a link FF. you can't of course

 

Israel developed its own massive arms industry after France imposed an arms embargo in 1967. If Israel stops buying weapons from the US it will hurt the US far more than Israel.


Dirty secret of Israel's weapons exports: They're tested on ...

Al Jazeera
https://www.aljazeera.com › features › 2023/11/17 › isr...
Nov 17, 2023 — Weapons tested in each war Israel wages see a spike in global demand. The current Gaza war is the latest laboratory for its arms industry.
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/...-industry-is-the-gaza-war-its-latest-test-lab

 

Really? Name five major weapons systems that Israel deploys today that were produced by them originally

 

In fact, Israel purchases weapons from the US. Israel supports the arms industries of its allies by buying their products, but Israel is a major weapons exporter.
Refusing to sell them weapons will just be a net loss for the US.

Israel to buy 25 more F-35 stealth jets in $3 billion deal

Reuters
https://www.reuters.com › world › middle-east › israel-...
Jul 2, 2023 — Israel has approved the purchase of a third squadron of F-35 stealth fighter jets in a deal worth $3 billion, the Ministry of Defense said ...
https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...more-f-35-stealth-jets-3-bln-deal-2023-07-02/

 

Israel is the Weapons"R"US of the ME. Here about half of a partial list:

"Local military development
Some of the military equipment developed locally have been:

• Small arms
  • Dror light machine gun
  • IWI Negev light machine gun
  • Uzi submachine gun
  • Uzi machine pistol
  • Desert Eagle semi-automatic pistol
  • Jericho 941 semi-automatic pistol
  • BUL M-5 semi-automatic pistol
  • BUL Storm semi-automatic pistol
  • SP-21 Barak semi-automatic pistol
  • IMI Galil assault rifle
  • IWI ACE assault rifle
  • IMI Tavor assault rifle
  • M89SR sniper rifle
  • Hezi SM-1 semi-automatic PDW
• Anti-tank rockets and missiles
  • MATADOR ATGM
  • B-300 ATGM
  • Shoulder-Launched Multipurpose Assault Weapon
  • Shipon Rocket launcher
  • FGM-172 SRAW ATGM
  • MAPATS ATGM
  • Spike ATGM
  • LAHAT ATGM
  • Nimrod AGM
• Other missiles
  • Guided Advanced Tactical Rocket - Laser
  • Shafrir air-to-air missile
  • Derby air-to-air missile
  • Python air-to-air missile
  • Gabriel naval anti-ship missile
  • ADM-141 TALD decoy missile
  • Popeye AGM-142 air-to-surface missile
  • Delilah cruise missile / anti-radiation missile
  • LORA theater ballistic missile
  • Jericho medium-range ballistic missile
• Aircraft
  • IAI Arava military transport aircraft
  • IAI Sea Scan surveillance aircraft
  • IAI Nesher fighter aircraft
  • IAI Kfir fighter aircraft
  • IAI Namer fighter aircraft
  • IAI Lavi fighter aircraft
  • ATG Javelin jet trainer
• Watercraft
  • Shaldag class fast patrol boat
  • Dabur class patrol boat
  • Dvora class fast patrol boat
  • Super Dvora Mk II class fast patrol boat
  • Super Dvora Mk III class fast patrol boat
  • Sa'ar 3-class missile boat
  • Sa'ar 4-class missile boat
  • Sa'ar 4.5-class missile boat
  • Sa'ar 5-class corvette
  • Gal-class submarine
  • Dolphin-class submarine
• Spaceflight
  • Shavit spaceflight launch vehicle
  • EROS earth observation satellite
  • Ofeq reconnaissance satellite
  • TecSAR reconnaissance satellite
• Weapon stations
  • CornerShot PTU weapon
  • Rafael Overhead Weapon Station
  • Samson Remote Controlled Weapon Station
  • Typhoon Weapon System
• Active protection systems
  • Trophy active protection system
  • Iron Fist active protection system
  • Flight Guard airborne IR countermeasures system
• Radars
  • EL/M-2032 Fire-control radar
  • EL/M-2052 AESA radar
  • EL/M-2075 Phalcon AEW&C radar
  • EL/M-2080 Green Pine target tracking radar
  • EL/M-2083 AEW&C radar
• Optronics
  • ITL MARS reflex sight
  • LITENING targeting pod
  • Spice EO-GPS PGM guidance kit
  • Skystar 300 ISR system

• Tanks
  • M50 Super Sherman medium tank
  • Sho't MBT
  • Magach MBT
  • Sabra MBT
  • Merkava MBT
• Fighting vehicles
  • M113 variants
  • Nimda Shoet APC
  • Trail Blazer ARV
  • IDF Nagmachon APC
  • IDF Nakpadon CEV
  • IDF Puma CEV
  • IDF Achzarit APC
  • IDF Namer IFV
  • Nemmera ARV
  • AIL Abir
  • AIL Storm
  • Plasan Sand Cat
  • Wolf Armoured Vehicle
  • Golan Armored Vehicle
  • AIL M325 Command Car
• • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Israel_Defense_Forces

 

The other half of that partial list:



Artillery

• Davidka mortar
• Soltam M-66 mortar
• Soltam M-68 howitzer
• Soltam M-71 howitzer
• Soltam M-120 mortar
• L-33/39 Ro'em self-propelled howitzer
• Makmat self-propelled mortar
• MAR-240/290 rocket artillery launcher
• LAR-160 rocket artillery launcher
• LAROM rocket artillery launcher
• Cardom mortar
• Rascal self-propelled howitzer
• ATMOS 2000 self-propelled howitzer
• Sholef self-propelled howitzer
• Pereh missile carrier[3] "

Unmanned aerial vehicles

• Tadiran Mastiff UAV
• Casper 250 UAV
• Silver Arrow Micro-V UAV
• Silver Arrow Sniper UAV
• IAI Scout UAV
• IAI Searcher UAV
• IAI Harpy UAV
• IAI Harop UAV
• IAI Bird-Eye UAV
• IAI I-View UAV
• IAI Ranger UAV
• IAI Heron UAV
• IAI Eitan UAV
• IAI Panther UAV
• IAI Ghost UAV
• IAI RQ-2 Pioneer UAV
• IAI RQ-5 Hunter UAV
• Elbit Skylark UAV
• Elbit Hermes 90 UAV
• Elbit Hermes 450 UAV
• Elbit Hermes 900 UAV
• Aeronautics Dominator UAV
• Aeronautics Orbiter UAV
• Urban Aeronautics X-Hawk UAV
• MicroFalcon UAV

Unmanned surface vehicles

• VIPeR UGCV
• Protector USV
• Guardium UGV
• Raam HaShachar unmanned Caterpillar D9 armored bulldozer
• Silver Marlin USV

Air-defense systems

• Machbet self-propelled anti-aircraft weapon
• Barak 1 naval surface-to-air missile
• Barak 8 naval surface-to-air missile
• SPYDER air-defense system
• Arrow anti-ballistic missile
• Tactical High Energy Laser
• Iron Dome short-range rocket defense system
• David's Sling medium-range rocket defense system

Miscellaneous

• Mitznefet helmet camouflage
• Tomcar all-terrain vehicle
• MG251/253 smoothbore tank gun
• Kilshon anti-radiation missile launcher
• IDF Caterpillar D9 armored bulldozer
• Skunk riot control agent
• Scream riot control agent
• SIMON breach grenade
• Enhanced Tactical Computer
• OR-201 Combat helmet"

 

Most of those are NOT weapons systems but munitions

 

Search the list for "system" and you will find many examples. To the extent that they are using imports the scale of their now massive arms industry will allow them to quickly produce their own alternative systems if the need is critical.

1. https://www.reuters.com › business › aerospace-defense › israel-reports-record-125-bln-defence-exports-24-them-arab-partners-2023-06-13
   Israel reports record $12.5 billion defence exports, 24% of them to ...
   Jun 13, 2023Israel exported a record $12.556 billion in defence products last year, with new Arab partners under the U.S.-sponsored 2020 Abraham Accords accounting for almost a quarter of the business, the ...
   
   https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...nce-exports-24-them-arab-partners-2023-06-13/

 

From what I've read, the US provides Israel a lof of money with which to purchase these weapons. Is that incorrect?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/

 

You would do well to read this article since you appear to be so uninformed.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked/