Why are people who describe themselves as "Progressives" in favor of Hamas and Iran?

Hamas speaks for Hamas. The Palestinians have no voice, and that is a big part of the problem.

Sure. That's a case of Hamas terrorism. Palestinian kids aren't responsible for it. Hamas wasn't acting for them when doing it and doesn't speak for them. They are not responsible or complicit.

Tracking down the perps is exactly what should have been done, because Hamas is a terroris organization and not a representative government.
But Netenyahu would have us believe that Hamas acted on behalf of Palestinians and that Palestinians are the enemy, and collectively responsible for what Hamas did.
And he and his apologists then use that to excuse what the IDF is doing to Palestinians. You can see this in the statements of his ministers, and also in the statements of his supporters here and elsewhere.

He says its war and they are the enemy. So bomb them. He gets away with it by conflating Hamas with Palestinians genrally, which you are feeding into.

You again fail to address this. Why are you avoiding this point?

 

I didn't fail to address that last sentence of yours.

I stated that your model is NOT how the world works.

You may not like the leaders of various countries, but claiming they don't represent the people is pointless. You still have to deal with the leader.

There are multiple reasons that Netanyahu has committed crimes in his war on Gaza - genocide, group punishment, etc.

In fact, Hamas popularity has been rising since Oct 7.

Gaza has needed someone to be ending the war Israel was waging against them. Hamas found a way.

And, do NOT tell me there was some magical negotiations way of doing it. NOBODY but Gaza was interested in that. NOBODY.

Now there are countries interested in negotiations!!!!

 

No, it isn't pointless to recognize an occupying repressive group of terrorists from a representative government. It is essential. When a group of thugs rob a bank and are In there with hostages and surrounded by police, that doesn't mean they are the owners or spokespeople of the bank or that the customers and bank tellers are part of their gang.
If that were so, then the police would be far more likely to go in guns blazing shooting anything that moved, as Israel has done here.

Not really. Before Oct 7 Israel was abusing and repressing Palestinians in apartheid. After Oct 7 Israel indiscriminately bombed Gaza, did a siege to starve Gazans, etc. Hamas brought on mass death.

Hamas later offered up hostages if Israel stopped, and Israel said no. Now again yesterday Hamas attempted to accept a deal negotiated by Egypt and Israel refused it even as the US endorsed it. What Hamas says short of ending it's own existence doesn't matter.

Israel wants Hamas dead and gone, full stop, and justifiably so. The horror here is that Nettenyahu conflates Hamas with Palestinian civilians, seeking to justify his indiscriminate aggression, and you are feeding into that.

There are people around the world against what Nettenyahu is doing, thanks in large part to brave reporters in Gaza, many of whom have been killed for their bravery. They are the heroes here, not Hamas.

There is mounting pressure on Nettenyahu from these foreign countries. Arab countries who were on the cusp of normalizing relations with Israel have withdrawn. South Africa has tried accusing Israel or genocide. Arrest warrants are being created for war crimes committed by Nettenyahu's ministers. Turkey, Israel's third biggest trading partner has ceased trade. Students in the USA are protesting for the divestment of their schools funding Israel. And even Biden himself has repeatedly told Netanyahu to stop.

These people are not Hamas agents (as some Nettenyahu apologists would claim). They are people who recognize the horror being done to the Palestinian civilians, many of whom are children.

The USA could stop Nettenyahu easily if it refused to support him any further or made that support contingent on him stopping. Israel is very much a client state of Israel and the USA could make Israel it's puppet very easily if it wanted to. Pressure on the USA for this is therefore important and influential; moreso than Hamas.

It is the Nettenyahu regime's atrocity and the brave reporting of it that has caused the change here. Not Hamas. These journalists are heroes. Hamas are not. It is vital to recognize the difference.

Had Hamas acted no differently but had Israel taken out Hamas without such atrocity, we would be back to pre-oct 7 repression and apartheid of Palestinians, probably with more global support for Israel, not less.

 

That is what I really wanted to ask, just not to you.
That was an error, responded to wrong post.

No one supports Hamas or Iran.
Many will support Palestinians or Iranian people. Just not the terror gov'ts leading the people.

 

OK this post is just nonsense.

First with the Christians for some crazy reason you think the Pope or somebody should do something about Gaza even though the combatants are Muslim and Jewish, and now with your praise of the brave martyrs of Ivy League Universities, those most privileged people on the entire planet, pretty clearly didn't understand what they were standing for.

I had mentioned this on another thread, but my son is currently attending Columbia, and he's texted me some of the side chats the students have. I don't think most of the students decided to make themselves unemployable by being publicly identified as anti-Semites. So the students who participated in these rallies seem to run from clueless to genocidal. They are no heroes.

 

what is your avenue to give them "hope?" The hope of someday eliminating Israel?

 

I am the author of the opening post. My question is why “Progressives” support misogynist and repressive societies. These Progressives would not enjoy living under Palestinian rule. Why should the Jews of the Middle East have to?

 

Terrorists are people but they come from a fixed location. If the terrorists hide behind civilians that does not mean the war can stop.

 

It does not bother you that the net result of all of these “very valid points” means the extermination of about half of the Jews that still survive?

 

Islam is the enemy of Christianity. We have been at war with Islam for over a millennium. Wokesters support Islam because it is the enemy of the West.

 

The answer is that the vast majority of them don't. You've asked a loaded question in which for the vast mojority of "progressives" your presumption is false.
You don't have to support a society to not want its children to be killed indiscriminately.
Yes, even homosexuals, who most there are disgusted by, many abhor, and some want to kill, can still not want children there to be blown up for the crime of being born in the wrong place and time.
That doesn't make such homosexuals self hating or hypocritical.
Let go of your tribalism.

 

It doesnt mean that. Why would you think it means that?

 

Given that nearly half of Jews are marrying non-Jews (and rising), the greatest threat to them is miscegenation. Given that Ashkenazi Jew are already more genetically European than Middle Eastern, you may need to clarify what exactly you mean by Jew. Is it a one drop rule? Do Ashkenazis count? Is it simply the religion and genetics don't matter? Is it self-identification?

I think Jews are headed for extinction along with all the other European tribes. My daughter is dating a Cuban, two nephews are dating Mexicans, one nephew is marrying a Hatian this summer, one niece is married to a Filipino... overall our Dutch-English bloodline is going to be very diverse in the next generation. I would guess in two centuries or so blonde/red hair will no longer exist and blue eyes will be exceedingly rare. We have dropped down 35% to 6.7% of the world's population in one short century. We will be below 5% by 2050 and 3% by 2100.

 

It might be interesting to do a search of his posts to see his level of outrage over the systematic rape, slaughter, and murder of all those young Jewish women during the 10/6 period.

Congrats on your son.

Israel's Troops Take Control of Rafah Border Crossing in Gaza

They fight the Gazans on the behalf of the Civilized World. What these animals did on 10/6/24 leaves Israel one choice.

'Israeli forces took control of the Rafah border-crossing in Gaza on Tuesday morning ahead of a possible assault on the city. It’s the first time Israel’s army has entered that part of Gaza since the war with Hamas, an Iran-backed' terrorist 'group, began in October.'

Civilians that wish to stop being human shields for the terrorists are being given time to evacuate before the ground campaign.



Israel has made it clear that the war will continue until Hamas is crushed as a military and government force, or surrenders.

Americans widely support Israel's Just Goals.

 

I don't need to do a search of his post history on the October 7th terrorist attack. I believe that came up a few weeks ago when he outed himself as supporting Hama's October 7th attack. But he is consistent. I perused his posting on the topic going back a few years and he has long supported the Palestinian cause. So he's not following the fad.

 

We are a majority Christian democracy. We know that the purposeful slaughter of civilians is criminal. You can consult the Pope if you want.

We can do better than what we have been doing with Palestine. It is with OUR help and support that this humanitarian disaster exists and is being furthered.

Calling those who oppose Israeli policy "anti-Semites" is BS. Israel is a democracy that includes those who are not Semite. It is their government policy that is the very serious problem.

It's the actions of the government that are unacceptable - and also criminal.

 

yes, and the title is what it is

 

Palestine has had NO objective of eliminating Israel. Nor have they made any moves in that direction.

In West Bank, President Abbas has worked with the IDF for nonviolence and pushed an agenda of negotiations only, even as Israel steals more and more of his land and the US does its best to ensure West Bank has NO CHANCE.

Gaza has never been allowed to negotiate anything as they sit there in the prison of Israel's design.

That siege IS war, but Israel whines about Gaza shooting some rockets at their iron dome - rockets so pathetic they can't be aimed.

Gaza fights for its freedom from the siege of Israel.

 

Muslims live in America.

The motivations for conflict in the ME have little to do with Muslims hating Christians or vice versa.

OBL didn't hate America because we are Christians.

We didn't conquer Iraq because they are Muslims.

 

Just stop with the idea of using Christian theology to enforce foreign policy decisions on the state. That's why I asked earlier if you were a Christian Nationalist. Your morality I assume is not based on Christianity but on your own reasoning, or at least that's what I understand most atheists believe, so you don't really have a basis of making a moral claim on the wider society

Secondly, you've not established that the IDF is engaging in the "purposeful slaughter of civilians," Are you telling me that the IDF has no military goals other than killing civilians? Is that on their powerpoints? a goal to kill X number of civilians on any given day? preposterous.

 

Let's be serious.

 

We claim to hold Christian values as a nation. We are a democracy, thus those Christian values SHOULD be evident in US policy.

The religious principles AND the foundational principles of our nation are ABSENT in our contribution to the slaughter of Palestinians.

As for your second, I've cited Smotrich, who absolutely DOES demand that Netanyahu carry out genocide in Gaza - he usese that term. And, he has the power to bring down Netanyahu's government - which Smotrich threatens to do.

Smotrich is NOT the only high government official who demands genocide.

You really need to try to keep up.

 

At this moment, there is no genocide to keep up with. The fact that there are people who say that isn't a reflection of Israeli military strategy, just as the comments of a few hotheads after 9/11 guided US military policy. It's pure demagoguery to refer to this war as a "genocide."

As for your constant calls to Jesus Christ, apparently the Lord and Savior of not just Christians but atheists who want to use the religion as a talking point, it's hypocrisy for you to say that Christian values should be evident in US policy when you do not even believe in "Christian values." Team Blue is running the show and are setting the nation's response to that war (and also to the Ukraine war, where apparently you don't feel Christian values are in much demand) and Team Blue isn't known for it's adherence to "Christian values." I just find it amusing that you seem to be demanding that American atheists, Jews, and Muslims also adhere to Christian values.

Perhaps you could arrange a ceremony at the National Cathedral and have an Episcopal Priest bless the Hamas martyrs.

 

The world, including the USA, disagrees with your damage report.

After 911, the US military DID NOT carry out genocide - you are MONUMENTALLY INSULTING AMERICA's MILITARY.

Your ideas about religion and democracy do not warrant response. Religion is garbage if it doesn't show up in an active way. And, Jesus stated that concerning his own followers - its not me.

 

I have to think that you purposefully misunderstood my comments as a way to either derail this conversation since there was NOTHING in what I said to lead anyone to think I was accusing the US military or the US government of committing genocide.

I would also venture that religion is garbage if it's used cynically for political purposes by people who do not even believe in that religion and have contempt for people that do.