Why are people who describe themselves as "Progressives" in favor of Hamas and Iran?

No Christian can support genocide.

Calling their government "terrorist" (which we did decades ago, NOT because of Oct 7) is not an excuse to allow 2 million people to suffer decades of endless siege with no hope of a way out.

 

No, Gaza doesn't hold an opinion. People in Gaza do. They don't all agree with each other. Some support Hamas. Many do not and merely fear Hamas. Hamas claims to speak for Gaza as a whole, but Hamas does not.

Again, between Israel and Gaza? Or between Israel and Hamas? You again seem to be conflating the two, and that feeds directly into Netenyahu's hands. He wants to present Palestinians as the enemy, and in wars you kill th enemy. But Palestinians are not the enemy. Hamas is. Hamas is not and does not speak for the Palestinian people. Hamas is not a representative government of the Palestinian people. Indiscirminately killing Palestinian children is not merely a matter of bombing the enemy.

 

Hamas is the governing party of Gaza. Netanyahu of the Likud part is the governing party of Israel.

Not all the civilians of those countries like their leadership.

That is NOT our choice - it is a fact.

I might like who you would choose, of course. But, ...

Nobody is fooled by the names of the combatant groups.

I don't know what your last sentence means.

It is true that the IDF kills all ages of Palestinians (plus aid workers, press, doctors without borders, ...) by use of the various weapons at their disposal.

 

No. Hamas is a terrorist organization that has taken control of Gaza. It is not a reprosentative democracy. It does not speak for Gazans. It was not elected by Gazans in recent years or indeed in the liftime of many Gazans. It does not act on behalf of Gazans. Gazans are not responsible for Oct 7. Hamas is. Treating Hamas as if it is a legit government speaking nad acting on behalf of the people of Gaza is a spit in the face of the people of Gaza.

It doesn't matter who I or you would choose. It matters IF the Palestinians choose Hamas to speak on their behalf. And they don't.

It means that Palestinians are not the enemy. Hamas is. And when you conflate the two, and demand that Palestinians ARE the enemy of Israel, you feed directly into Netenyahu's logic that in war we kill the enemy. If Palestinians are the enemy, then that makes Palestinians ok to kill under that logic. I don't agree with you and Netanyahu on that. Palestinians are not Hamas. Hamas does not speak or act for or on behalf or with the authorization of the Palestinian people.

 

What does "Christian" have to do with any of this? That comment certainly came out of the blue. There are religions involved in that conflict but not Christianity. When you make comments that are so off topic it makes me think you are simply trying to throw chaff to obscure the conversation.

 

I appreciate your posts, but, I'm still going to ask some questions here.

Gaza has been sustaining under a serious war by Israel that has caused them major suffering, rights denial and privation for 20 years.

In West Bank, President Abbas has been working with the IDF to try to maintain nonviolence as he works to gain the attention of the UN and other nations in his struggle against Israel's military colonization of his country - to absolutely NO avail.


What makes you think that Palestine doesn't (or shouldn't) support Hamas?

There is NOBODY else supporting Palestine. Hamas has been working to maintain civil infrastructure, to distribute aid to those in serious need, to demand remittances owed Gaza by Israel, and to oppose Israel's war to the extent possible.

So, SERIOUSLY - why do you think Palestinians wouldn't support Hamas?

Do you think Palestinians have faith in America, or negotiations, or in any other country?

Please explain your view here.


To me, the rising support that Hamas has among Palestinians, including in Gaza is not even SLIGHTLY surprising. Yet, YOU think it doesn't exist?

 

We claim to be a Christian country.

Yet we support the genocide by starvation of Gaza and the bulldozing of homes of Palestinians as Israel colonizes their country.

What happened to our Christian morality?

Destroying the hospitals, the mosques, the universities, the civic infrastructure, the targeted murder of doctors, nurses, press, aid workers, first responders?

Do you seriously believe that Christianity gives no advice on this?

 

Are you a "Christian Nationalist?"

 

you don't think there is any Christians on the left? there is, in fact most are, there is also atheists on the right

 

??
I'm an atheist.

That doesn't mean I reject the humanist philosophy that Jesus is said to have taught.

 

Hmm I didn't say that. Guess you are trying to derail the topic even more than it has been.

 

So you spent a comment arguing for a Christian ethical policy to support a terrorist group when you are not even Christian. What was the purpose of that?

 

? Read more carefully.

I would hope that Christians choose to live more Christian lives.

Any political discussion in America has to recognize that Christian faith is in the majority. I'm not here to fight that.

But, it's disappointing to see the Christian majority USA support and aid Israel in their attempted conquest of Palestine - especially considering Israel's methodology.

 

seems you are as the title was why do people that describe themselves as progressive, most of which in the USA are Christians

 

Well I would hope that atheists would live their lives dedicated to reason and logic and you seem to resist that. If you are not living up to your ideals why should I care what you think of another group not (according to you) living up to their ideals?

 

This CEO tweeted this out in to the Rape and Murder Apologists on our campuses

'Moral courage > College degree If you’re currently protesting against the genocide of the Palestinian people & for your university’s divestment from Israel, keep going. It’s working. There are plenty of companies & CEOs eager to hire you, regardless of university discipline. Apply here: http://hims.com/careers-professionals'

Their Market cap is down $300M and he's back tracking.

https://hotair.com/karen-townsend/2024/05/06/fafo-the-hims-edition-n3787856

I think they align with Gaza and Iran in their hatred of Jews and hatred for us.

 

Palestine doesn't have a single voice. Some there certainly do support Hamas, and that number is probably growing given what Israel is doing to them.
Why shouldn't they? Same reason Israelis shouldn't support Netenyahu. They kill innocent people, including children, and they speak favourably of genocide of Jews. They are terrorists.
If you support such terorrism (it isn't clear if you do or do not giving what you write here), then I don't know what to say to you, other than to note that you answered dishonestly above when you said you didn't. I do not support it, and I don't think anyone should.

Now I would like to see you address what I wrote in my previous post.
Do you not recognize that Netenyahu's regime, and many posting here as well, seek to equate Hamas to Palestinians generally, blame them collectively for what Hamas terrorism, declare them enemies and tereby excuse what Israel is doing to them? And do you not recognize that you play directly into that if you agree that Hamas speaks and acts for Palestinians rather than just for Hamas?

Do you not see how that is couter-productive to your stated concern for the Palestinian people suffering the abuses from Nettanyahu's regime? I share your concern and I am cuatious against falling into that trap. We need to stand up for innocent palestinians and not allow them to be equated to Hamas terrorists.

 

Well, I'm not so worried about future elections in Gaza, West Bank OR Israel, though my bet is that Netanyahu is cooked.

Hamas is the government of Gaza. That's the way it is. It isn't going to change until after the war. Like with Netanyahu, and the fact that he will be toast when the war ends, we're not going to see elections DURING this war.

You and I may not like it, but Hamas speaks for Gaza and Netanyahu speaks for Israel. Period.

What terrorism are you talking about? Seriously. Let's get specific, as that word gets waved around quite a bit.

>> Do you mean Oct 7?
In that case, it certainly was a terrorist act, though magnified significantly by stories out of Israel and the nonsense from the NYT. If Israel wants to work to track down the perps, fine.

But, he doesn't. He wants to slaughter at least tens of thousands of Palestinians. Group punishment like that is a CRIME.


>> Do you mean the lame rockets shot at Israel during Israel's war against Gaza?

If so, that is clearly NOT terrorism, as shooting rockets at those who are waging war against you is perfectly legit.

So, what else?

 

Who is supporting Hamas and Iran?

 

You're just being trolled for the purpose of ad hom attacks

 

Why are people who describe themselves as "Progressives" in favor of Hamas and Iran?

They aren't.

 

Is that what you really want to ask?

The war Gaza faces today isn't about who they get support from.

 

America's morals came through in the demonstrations against the genocide of Israel.

It was a MAJOR contribution made by America's university students.

Some got beaten or arrested. Some got kicked out of school. Etc.

BUT, THEY better understood what we stand for.

Biden knew that was the right direction, too. We DO support Israel, but not to the extent of slaughtering citizens. It was and continues to be a tough direction.


Of course, Israel is still bombing the citizens of Rafah!!

 

Well, maybe these folks just all have an affinity for beheading?

'protesters held mock tribunals and called for the heads of the President, Provost, and Board of Trustees to be cut off by guillotine. ...'

'Guillotine! Guillotine! Guillotine!'

'the example of Maximilien Robespierre is highly instructive. Exactly one year and a day after rising to power on the basis of left-wing authoritarianism, Robespierre got executed for being insufficiently revolutionary. The revolution eats its own.'

 

I am not a progressive, so maybe I can help.

Hamas is awful. But they have gained popularity because of how awful Israel also is to Palestinians. Palestinians don't actually like Hamas much, but they like Hamas more than they like what they see as a foreign invader oppressing them on their homeland, and Hamas, as awful as they are, are 'taking the fight to the enemy.'

Now it has to be considered that 99% of Israeli Jews are not invading oppressors. They were born in Israel and have as much claim to it as anyone. But that isn't much comfort to Palestinians who are being denied what they see as their birthright. Its a **** situation with no solution, both 'sides' being manipulated by evil and callous leadership.

Iran is a bit of a different thing. They arent the only country mad at 'the west' because 'the west' thinks we have the right to tell the rest of the world what to do, who can be friends, who can trade what... Iran is just the most powerful and rebellious of the list. Iran is basically the poster child for resistance to 'the west's' (and thus the USA's) global military and economic empire. Its worth noting that they arent some sort of 'good guy'- the Iranian govt is the worst mix of crazy and corrupt, and as much as we facilitated the current problems in Israel some 70 years ago by meddling in foreign affairs that were none of our business, we were also directly responsible for empowering Iran's crazy corrupt regime because the previous one wasn't cooperating as much as we thought they should. So we played regime change and made it 100x worse. Now we don't know what to do, so we sanction the crap out of them and make them the 'hero' that all the other nations that hate being meddled by the west flock to for support.

Honestly I don't know how much of this is bleeding into the mainstream media-worshipping 'progressives' who by and large just believe whatever the talking blue donkey on TV tells them todays important issue is... I pay precisely zero attention to what campus troublemakers newest excuse is to not go to class and try to get on the news. But there are some very valid points on the Iran/Palestine side of this issue, and I gotta believe 'progressives' have to some extent (even if its at a subconscious level) tuned in to those valid issues, even if they arent able to vocalize them through their cult programming.