Islam spreads to South America

I am part Muslim since I do love Islam and the Holy Qur'an, but really I am foremost a Christian even though not orthodox, and I embrace all religions of all kinds as Hindu, Jew, Atheist, Humanist, Shamanism, as all religions have some great truths mixed in with assorted human errors.

The religion which I see you as representing is the religion of intolerance and fear and violent ignorance.

You are condemned by your own stance, and rightly so.

And as you denounce the Muslims of the Middle East even though that is their homeland and NOT yours, but this thread is directed at the growth of mighty Islam into South America. The great religion of Islam is NOT so feared nor hated as you present it, and Islam is the fastest growing religion in the entire world.

As I said - I like all religions and I am foremost a Christian but when I meet people in this world being lost and confused then many times I recommend to them that they turn to Islam and to the Qur'an because it is an embracing and empowering religion that teaches its members self discipline and self respect which is so absent in so many people in this world.

 

1. It is impossible for one to be a Christian which advocates "Thou shalt not kill" and simultaneously to to be a Muslim and commanded by the Koran to kill non-Muslims.

2. Islam is not a religion. It's obvious how Islam came to be purported as a "religion". When the founders of it were espousing imperialist genocidal mass murder, extreme misogyny, pedophilia, kidnapping/slavery, torture/mutilation, racial and sexist discrimination, and other vile things, and were looking for troops to join them in their conquests throughout Asia Minor, they needed something very powerful and extreme to offset and shield them from the severe condemnation they were sure to get.
The answer was religion. By pretending that the Koran, and all of its hatred and immorality was the word of God, they forced the people to accept it. After all, nobody wants to go against God do they ? As this grandiose con job spread, over time it became deeper and deeper entrenched as a religion (especially when Muslims were killing millions of people who resisted it), and more and more difficult to abolish or reform.
The sad thing is that over the 1400 year history of this abomination, not one word of the Koran has been changed.

3. Islam is the ideology "of intolerance and fear and violent ignorance", and many much worse things (imperialist genocide, misogyny, wife beating, kidnapping, slavery, pedophilia, rape, robbery, torture, mutilation, killing of animals, etc)

4. No self-respectful person, with an ounce of decency, could ever be a follower of the abomination of Islam.

 

You certainly cultivate your own ignorance and hatred.

FGM has been a social custom in Northern Africa for millennia. Many people associate FGM with the religion of Islam. Actually, it is a social custom that is practiced by Animists, Christians, and Muslims in those countries where FGM is common. There are many Muslim countries in which the mutilation is essentially unknown, including Algeria, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. 2 FGM is nearly universal in Indonesia as well -- the world's largest predominately Muslim country.

 

THE MEANING OF JIHAD:


The best jihad [struggle] is (by) the one who strives against his own self for Allah, The Mighty and Majestic," Hadith (sayings of the Prophet Muhammad).

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors." Qur'an, Chapter 2, verse 190.

 

This is (Yours) a terrible distortion that has no basis in Islam.
Let there be no compulsion in religion; Truth stands out clear from error; whoever rejects evil and believes in G-d hath grasped the most trustworthy hand hold that never breaks. And G-d heareth and knoweth all things." (Verse 2:216)

"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):…( Verse 18:29)

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! Wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!" (Verse 10:99)


P.S.
Christianity is more "fundamentalist" and "evil" than Islam

I'm tired of Muslims in America being on the defensive end of all the issues. Let's assess Christianity for a few seconds, shall we? The Nazi party was Christian ... Christians brought thousands upon thousands of black MUSLIMS from Africa and annihilated their religion, family, and identity. They would use the bible to justify slavery. A Christian pope declared the crusades, not the Muslims. The Inquisition was Christian, not Muslim. Christians killed off the natives of North America; called them an inferior race, shipped them to reservations, and then withheld food from them until they converted. Coronado, Cortez, and all the other Spanish conquerors killed off the natives in South America because they weren't white Christians and therefore, inferior.
The Catholic Church has been wrong so many times that it's almost funny. They have done nothing but impede science and reason. They imprisoned Galileo because he believed that the earth revolved around the sun. They beat and killed Tyco Brahe, a brilliant astronomer, through the streets because he too disagreed with the church. They tried to stop the age of reason. It required the annihilation of pretty much all of northern Germany to get the mighty Huns to convert to Christianity.
The acts of brutality go on and on. I can fill up all the pages of any book with acts of Christian brutality. In fact, the bible is more fundamentalist and conservative than the Qur’an ever was. According to the bible, women can't speak in churches, ever become religious leaders, and are subordinate to men. Homosexuals should be put to death, and divorce is a sin! In that case, 48% of Americans have committed a very serious offense.
I'm tired of hearing about Islam being a horrible religion. The next time any ignorant Christian attacks the Koran or Islam, don't put your head down and be content to defend yourself. Question his/her faith instead. The only reason Christianity has done more is because it's been around longer with more adherents. That's all. But to attack Islam and call it an evil, fundamentalist religion, especially if those insults are coming from Christians, is silly. DanielPipes

http://www.ascertainthetruth.com/at...e-&catid=61:where-religions-differ&Itemid=103

 

Islam is not a religion, and it is the exact opposite of Christianity. It preaches hate and war, whereas Christianity preaches love and peace.

 

I said nothing about FGM, you said that. Muslims practice terrorism & mutilation in Sharia law, derived directly from the Koran. You know it occurs routinely, throughout the Islamic world. Stop pretending.

"I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers."
Quran 8:12

"Those that make war against God and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be slain and crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land." Quran 5:33

 

LOL. This is one war you certainly won't win. Yes the Koran says some good things ( a diversion - all part of the big con job), but it is riddled with hatred, murder, pedophilia, wife-beating, slavery, and other vile things. I've debated dozens of Islamapologists, for years. You're not a very good one. Here's a tip. The last thing you want to bring up is the Koran. LOL.

Oh yes. We've all heard the coverup definition for jihad. Here's the true meaning > Holy WAR.

 

What total NONSENSE ! Christianity has a track record that does include some bad things, but it's record is miniscule next to the horrific record of Islam over the past 1400 years. Islam has killed 270 million people around the world. 120 million Africans. 60 million Christians. 80 Million Hindus, and 10 Million Buddists. Islam's uncivilzed, barbaric savages are now hard at work (Hamas & Hezbollah) killing Jews. Al Qaeda is killing Americans.

No ideology, cult, religion, or nation even comes close to the abominable record of Islam.

As for slavery, Islam wrote the book on it (literally-the Koran). Muslims were kidnapping people in no the and central Africa for over 1000 years before slave ships arrived in America, and they're still doing it today in Sudan and Mauritania. See the book Escape From Slavery by Francis Bok, a Dinka tribesman from south Sudan, who was kidnapped by militant Muslims and taken to a Muslim farm in the Muslim north of the country and enslaved.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bok)

Together with their long slavery tradition, Muslims also have a severe disdain for black Africans. In fact slavery is so deeply entrenched in the Islamic world that the Arabic word for black (abeed), also means "slave". (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abeed) In the Muslim tradition, black people were created by Allah for one simple reason > to be slaves.

PS - when you see attacks against Christianity like this, 90% of the time it's a Muslim talking. Jews don't condemn Christianity. Hindus and Buddhists don't. Atheists don't care . And Christians don't condemn themselves.

Lastly, what sins Christianity committed, is long in the past. Muslims are still comitting theirs. 17,000 terrorist attacks since 9/11.

 

Yes it is. If you're going to give the old 'its not a religion its an ideology' then you missed the fact that religion IS an ideology.

How so?

Where? And dont just give me one liners and cherry pick violent passages - because I can do that with the Bible to a LARGER extent than you can with the Quran.

LOL They preach almost exactly the same thing - 'enlightenment through knowledge of God.' Islam has more similarities with Judaism however, which is explained by its historical development. Generally speaking however, they are more similar than dissimilar.

 

I like this comment - it reveals your ignorance and deception.

Not really. Its not very logical to say Christianity or Islam, as religious creeds, shaped history, rather that they were elements that contributed - playing rarely as causes and more often only as accompanying features. Whatever you define as the "record of Islam" or the "record of Christianity" is rather silly as it discounts all the other, far more pervasive factors, such as preexisting cultures, political institutions and then their development along with the integration of the religion. Analyzed objectively, religion is more of a social movement, rather than some kind of all pervasive and controlling force directing people. Evil and good can be created from any and all religions depending on the other factors at hand.
Ultimately debating any history is irrelevant if it doesn't help us understand the present, and your attempt to demonize Islam by focusing on the worst elements of its history - past and present, just as the other guy seeks to do with Christianity, is just mindlessly pathetic and pointless. It serves no other purpose than to engage in inflammatory and unproductive arguments that do nothing to broaden people's understandings of things, rather simply it hardens people's thoughts and closes their minds.

Whatever man, no one really cares, nor takes your "tallies" seriously.

See my above statements. Such comments you make do not contribute to debate, and I think you already know this. If we were to add up the deaths of all the wars and crimes committed in the name of religion, this would really tell us nothing about the religion, rather the nature of human beings and the way they try to justify their brutality. Violence is not exclusive to any religion. In my study of history, Europe has been far more bloodthirsty than anywhere else in the world, but you would be stupid to attribute it to religion, in the same way you would be devaluing your own ability to summarize the history of crimes and brutality in places like Africa, the Indian-subcontinent and the Middle East etc as products of Islam.

Really? How so? You realize Jesus never said slavery was bad either. Christian nations abolished slavery by new interpretations of their religion, just as Muslim authorities did, particularly in the Ottoman empire. Indeed he spoke as if it would not dissipate and that it didnt matter.

Sure but that was a preexisting practice. In Europe slavery become institutionalized in virtually the same way, except was adorned with more colorful and ideological titles, like serfdom etc.

Yeah, well if you had have actually read it you would know that it was Muslims that helped him escape that life as well as put him in it. Clearly not evidence that it is some kind of irreconcilable practice of Islam.

Not really. The first man to announce the call to prayer at Mohammad's Mosque was a freed black African slave. Again your analysis is shoddy to say the least.

ROFL Your link actually says Abeed is a derogatory term, not the same word for slave is for black. Furthermore, Abeed is a particularly Sudanese term, not widely used outside of that cultural-political setting. The Arab word (most common) for negro is zanjy.

Which Muslim tradition is that? The Quran and hadith repeatedly state the equality of all humans.

That comment is so ignorant it warrants no response.

LOL Muslim extremists are denounced widely by Muslims generally. Similarly, the nation with one of the largest Christian populaces has easily committed far more terrorism than Muslim extremists could dream - ie the USA. But I would not ignorantly say that it is because of Christianity that this occurred, even though there were a number of leaders in the US' crimes that justified their action with religious rhetoric.
But again this 'Christianity vs Islam' idea you are try to place on every debate is just stifles discussion and attempts to confine it to ignorant and delusional simplifications.

 

Well we're all waiting for you to refute her correct explanation. Similarly, there is not one reference in the Quran to "holy war". There is only war - not holy war. There is nothing holy about war. What is holy, in so far as it is ordained by God, is struggle - against injustice and impurity (of the self). This is why jihad only means struggle, and can mean as much as fighting alcoholism as joining the army to stop oppression. The fact it only means struggle - it doesn't even mean violence, let alone war - is evidenced by the fact there are around 35 uses of jihad in the Quran yet only 4 verses explicitly state it in regards to war. The Arabic word used in the quran for fighting is qital. Similarly if it were meant always as "holy" why would it be followed by the phrase "in the way of God"? If it were holy, it wouldn't need to further instruction of Godly action. Furthermore, jihad can be a pacifist by way of its meaning as struggle, as it can be interpreted as condoning violence. For example, Ghandi's Satyagraha is often recorded in Arabic as a jihad, yet is non-violent. This emphasizes again the words true meaning - struggle for justice.

 

"If you're going to give the old 'its not a religion its an ideology' then you missed the fact that religion IS an ideology."

FALSE !
An ideology is simply opinions on which a social system is based. A rligion is more specific. It entails a code of ethical behavior. Islam is a cose of UNethical behavior. It's the last thing on earth that could ever be drfined as a religion, which is why millions of people dismiss it as being as religion, and billions have, over the past 1400 years. To call Islam a religion, is the height of absurdity.

"How so ?"

LOL. Your either an idiot or a liar, and most likely, you're a Muslim, which automatically puts you in the liar (taqiyya) category. I notice you keep asking questions that I've already answered over and over. You have nothing intelligent to contribute to this issue, and you're a pest. If you want to talk about Islam and Islamization, go out and read a couple dozen books on the subject (including the footnoted reports) for 10 years as I have, and THEN come back here with knowledge and participate. It's too time consuming to be answering questions for know-nothings like you who are like 8 year olds, and have a question for everything.

YOU KNOW how Islam is the exact opposite of Christianity. If you don't, you're the biggest airhead in this forum, but you do know. You're a Muslim, lying phony. Islam is hate, evil, and war. Christianity is love, goodness, and peace.

"Where? And dont just give me one liners and cherry pick violent passages - because I can do that with the Bible to a LARGER extent than you can with the Quran."

Cherry pick ? One looks through the Koran and picks out the suras you asked for . That's how it's done, dolt. Here's a few of them. PS - NO, you can't do the with the chriatian bible - it does NOT preach hate and war and conquest as the Koran does.

"I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." Koran 8:12

"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them." Koran 9:5

"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate." Koran 9:73

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous." Koran 9:123

"Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.
Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: "Taste the torment of the Conflagration!" Koran 22:19-20

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." Koran 48:29

"Those that deny Our revelations We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise." Koran 4:56

"Those that make war against God and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be slain and crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land." Koran 5:33

"When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly." Koran 47:4

"Let not the unbelievers think that they will ever get away. They have not the power to do so. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of God and your enemy..." Koran 8:59-60

"Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. God does not guide the wrong-doers." Koran 5:51

"The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Bible] and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures." Koran 98:6

Easiest task on earth > to show hate and war in the Koran. It is riddled with them from cover to cover.

PS - I am moving at the end of this month and am very busy right now. I really don't have time for your inane posts, but I will answer them, slowly but surely, as time goes on, when I can find the time.

 

America can learn a great deal from Islam about the role of women and homosexuals in society.

 

"...your attempt to demonize Islam by focusing on the worst elements of its history..."

No one needs to demonize Islam. With it's track record of conquest, killing and subjugation for 1400 years, Islam has long ago demonized itself (and continues to), despite the laughable sanitization attempts from Islamapologists like you.
I've been debating Islamapologists like you for 10 years. You're all the same. You pretend to be Oh so knowledgeable, and underneath it, you know nothing about Islam and Islamization.

I sometimes give a quiz on the subject to these pretenders. The highest grade any of them has ever gotten on it was 5% (most got zero). When you want to find out how much you don't know, let me know, and you can take the quiz too.

 

You do realize, mr. protectionist, that at the time the koran was given, there were no law courts to go to. It was probably worse than the wild west in north america -- most Arab tribes at the time made their way by raiding, raping and pillage of other tribes. Under those conditions, there is going to be fighting. Not to do so would mean a suicide pact.

After Islam was established, which probably happened with the death of muhammad, the raiders were mostly defeated and the war should have stopped. My reading of the koran seems to imply that -- most of the time the book says fight with the prophet, so once there is no prophet, there should be no more war except in self defense.

Another thing, simply reading the books of people who hate islam is not the way to study islam. how many books written by muslims have you looked at? How many muslims do you talk to on a daily basis? have you ever been inside a mosque?

 

During those 1400 years, are you trying to say that Christian rulers, Christian states, religious groups were not conquering, killing and subjugating people? Really? Or did you just focus on Islamic nations for those 1400 years?

Regardless of current trends, it would be foolish to say that during medieval times and the early modern era Christian nations, rulers, armies, etc... had a better track record than their Islamic counterparts.

I found it interesting in University that it was a Muslim philosopher/scholar/polymath who kept the interest in Aristotle and his teachings alive and helped revive him in Europe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes

 

Do you know anything at all about European history or New World history?

If you are going to DEBATE Islam, learn something about it.

 

You are not qualified to tell me to learn something about Islam, MS. QUIZ ZERO, after you flunked (by default) the Islam/Islamization quiz I gave you.
Like many Islamapologists before you, you have mouthed off numerous times, but when called upon to really show what you know, you showed what you know - NOTHING.

 

I don't know where you get your information (from some Muslim indoctrination teachers perhaps ? - there's lots of them around). In any case, the raiders of Mohammed's thugs were not defeated. Quite the contrary, under the caliph, Omar, in 634, a major conquest expansion of Islam began throughout the Middle East and North Africa. This expanded in present day Spain, and by 751 AD, the conquest expanded eastward as well into India and China. By 100 years after Mohmmed's death, His legacy of conquest had galvanized Muslim marauders all over more of the earth than the Roman empire at its height.

Secondly, I don't know which Koran you are reading, but I don't see any implications of Muslims being commanded to "fight with the prophet", in all those suras I mentioned a few posts ago (Post # 113). You're right that there should be no more war. Problem is there has been, and it's continued for 1400 years. is Muslims did what they "should" do, there wouldn't be a problem.

As for reading books by people who hate Islam, I have read books by people who are intelligently OBJECTIVE, and who see Islam for what it is. If they then hate it, that's because Islam is something which warrants being hated, not anything to do with the authors of the books.

 

Christians had a pretty good track record for slaughtering Jews, Muslims, Cathars, Aztecs and American Indians.. They also burned European witches by the thousands, pulled off the Inquisition and so forth.

As far as Islam and slavery..

The Celts, Vikings, Romans, Greeks and Khazars were also slavers.. Not to mention the Sugar Jews, Dutch, English and Portuguese

Slavery in Islam comes with specific rules as to the treatment of slaves.. God smiles when a slave is freed.

And children born to the master by a slave mother have all rights to recognition that legit children have..

Note the Prince Bandar, son of Prince Sultan was born to a slave girl.

You have a lot to learn.

 

First of all, those who talk about Christianity negatively, when the subject matter is Islam, almost always are Muslims. Whenever we are talking to a Muslim we must always realize that taqiyya (deception) is a standard practice, euphamizing Islam, and we must take all that is said with a grain of salt.

As for what Christians did or didn't do, whatever. That isn't the TOPIC of this thread. If you want to talk about Christianity and how bad it might have been centuries ago, well there is a New Thread button waiting for you to click on it. In the meantime, it isn't very relevant to the life of 2011, since Christianity's ills were long in the past, while Islam's continue in the present and future.

As for what contributions Muslim have made socially and scientifically, theya re practically non-existent compared to the mountains of accomplishment of Europe and the USA.

 

Real history doesn't give any of the Abrahamic religions a pass... and YOU are positively hateful and largely ignorant of Islam..

Now lighten up and look in the mirror for five minutes.

http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/206792-3-abrahamic-faiths.html

 

FALSE ! References to Allah in the warfare suras, are replete throughtout the Koran, and I just mentioned a few of them in post # 113. LOL.

The idea that jihad is not war against infidels (as the Koran clearly and repeatedly states ), but rather some internal , psychological struggle, is the standard (laughable) line that Islamapologists customarily issue forth. LOL. It's hilarious to see the incredible lunacies that these idiots actually think they can get away with, and for as long a time (years) that they do it. Ho Hum. Yawn *****.

So this guy is either a Muslim himself blowing out this standard smokescreen, or he's a pathetic student of some Muslim propagandizers who have him programmed to the hilt. LOL.

 

This is nuts.. fighting defensive war is not the same as the Old Testament mandate to kill everyone including the women, children and livestock.

http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/206792-3-abrahamic-faiths.html