“The Archaeological Evidence for the Bible is Non-Existent!”

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Margot2, Dec 12, 2015.

  1. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    This is an interesting read ... and it covers a lot o information. There are also some indexes which I won't even try to copy and post.

    The archaeological evidence of the Bible is scarce. In fact, it is non-existent. After 200 years of Christian archaeologists digging up the whole Middle East, they haven’t found any proof of the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt, Hebrew Slaves or the Ten Plagues.

    NONE!!! And this from a nation of people who wrote EVERYTHING down in stone!! And Sinai has no proof of any large group of people travelling through it EVER!!! The first evidence correlating to the biblical story doesn’t appear in Canaan archaeology until around 100 years before the Babylonian Captivity (around 600 BC).

    This lack of evidence includes persons such as David and Solomon who should be recorded in other nations and supposedly lived relatively close to those who wrote the Bible in the Babylonian Captivity around 500 B.C.

    In the words of Shakespeare, “Methinks thou dost protest too much.” It is true that we would like to have more archaeological evidence than we now have. But of course, from an archaeologist’s perspective, this is always the case.

    Further, your assertion that no evidence exists, is an overstatement which cannot be substantiated. And it is not accepted by the majority of those scholars who are active in the Levant. I would suspect that you are reading a narrow spectrum of archaeologists who support your desired conclusions. And there are many European and Israeli archaeologists along with Christian ones who do not share your opinion nor that of those you apparently are reading. Let me give you some examples from these scholars who feel there is substantial evidence mitigating against such a pessimistic stand.

    Egypt

    I will start here, because there is no doubt that we see clear evidence of Egyptian culture, language, etc., imbedded in both the Old Testament and archaeology. As you may know, the lingua franca (official language) used by Heads of State and commerce was Akkadian cuneiform. Assyria, Babylon, and Egypt all conversed with each other in this language. It is a northern Semitic language.

    If the Israelites actually spent 400 years as slaves in Egypt, we would expect this familiarity of Egyptian language and culture among the Israelites. And if Moses was a real person–a Hebrew brought up in the Royal Egyptian family–he would have probably been tri-lingual, and able to converse in Hebrew, Egyptian and Akkadian.

    Exodus, Sinai

    We find abundant evidence of an Egyptian heritage and influence throughout the Pentateuch, Joshua, and Judges. As stated above, we would like more archaeological corroboration to clearly identify Biblical names, places, events, etc. For some areas the evidence is strong. For others, it is either sparse, or nonexistent. I will elaborate on this later in considering Jerusalem, but will state here the premise that an absence of archaeological data does not necessarily mean there is none. Perhaps we have the wrong site (historical Mt. Sinai is an example). Or perhaps we just haven’t dug in the right place. To argue vigorously from “silence” is not strong proof.

    We do have some indications of Egyptian influence on two biblical elements: the Tabernacle/construction described in Exodus 25-27; 36-38, and the arrangement of the Israelite travel/military camp. The order of the camp and the order of the march are laid out in great detail in Numbers 2. Much of what Egyptian archaeologists have discovered pertaining to the above find many similarities in the structures/construction/arrangement of the various war camps of the Pharaohs.

    The desert Tabernacle of the Bible (Exodus 26) is described as one of elaborate design of gold, silver, bronze, wood, linen, goats’ hair and leather. It so happens that this desert tent is also the centerpiece of every Egyptian war camp, but it serves as Pharaoh’s personal, special tent, not a religious shrine.

    The best example comes from a famous battle (at Kadesh) between Ramesses II and the Hittite nation around 1275 B.C. This is one of the most momentous battles in antiquity and the best documented…at Thebes, Karnak, Luxor, Abydos and Abu Simbel–on papyrus and stone, in both poetic and prose forms. The best pictorial is found at Abu Simbel. The parallels between Ramesses’ camp and the biblical Tabernacle, beginning with the dimensions, are striking.

    •The camp forms a rectangular courtyard twice as long as it is wide.
    •The main entrance is located in the middle of the short walls.
    •A road from the entrance leads directly to a two chamber tent: a reception compartment and directly behind it Pharaoh’s chamber. It too has a 2:1 ratio.
    •The tent and camp lie on an east/west axis with the entrance on the east.
    •In pharaoh’s inner tent is representation on each side of the winged falcon god Horus.
    •Their wings cover the pharaoh’s golden throne in the same manner that the wings of the Cherubim covered Yahweh’s golden throne/ark (Exodus 35:18-22).

    Continued

    https://www.probe.org/the-archaeological-evidence-for-the-bible-is-non-existent/

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    Given your assumption that the Old Testament didn’t materialize until the Persian period (fifth century B.C.), we would expect Mesopotamian influence, but we do know from several palatial reliefs found at Nineveh that the Assyrians had a very different form of military camp. The camp’s perimeter is always oval in shape and the form of the king’s tent bears little resemblance to the Tabernacle. Where would these sixth century B.C. “authors” come up with this accurate, Egyptian-oriented detail/description seven centuries removed?

    I won’t elaborate on this (unless you want documentation), but the Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies, its design, materials, and portability, so graphically designed in Exodus 25:19-22, is also mirrored in Egyptian funerary structures to a high degree of detail.

    Another remarkable example is to compare three cities mentioned in Numbers 22 (Dibon); Numbers 13:22; Joshua 10:36,37; Judges 1:10 (Hebron); and Judges 4-5 (Qishon). These passages all describe a well-known, well-traveled road (the Arabah) in the Transjordan from the southern tip of the Dead Sea to the plains of Moab (opposite Jericho). This is not to be confused with the great north-south Kings Highway (also mentioned in the Bible) which stretched from northern Arabia to Syria.

    Although Thomas Thompson and other “Rejectionists” claim these cities didn’t exist in the late Bronze Age II (1400-1200 B.C.), we have extra-biblical evidence that they did. You may know that the Pharoahs recorded, along with their achievements and military exploits, maps and the names of roads, geographical data, etc. We get a rather full picture of this road over time by several pharaohs who mention/describe this specific road on their victory monuments.

    The first comes from Thutmosis III (1504-1450 B.C)., who mentions four towns/cities along this road which are also found in the Bible: Iyyim, Dibon, Abel, and Jordan. The second and third come from Amenophis III (1387-1350 B.C.) and Ramesses II (c. 1379-1212 B.C.)–found on the west side of the great hall at Karnak. He mentions two of the names found in the Bible. Further evidence comes from the Moabite stone (ninth century B.C.).

    I could go into more detail about this if you are interested, but to summarize what I’m saying, there is evidence from independent and varied sources that such places existed several centuries before the proposed dates of the Exodus. Consider this comparison:
     
  2. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Bible itself is enough evidence.
     
  3. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Evidence of what? The bible was not assembled and called the bible until well after the alleged death of the Christ fellow.
     
  4. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A book written by over 40 authors over 1500 years with the writers having little to no access of previous works and the book staying as consistent as it is, is almost an impossibility without some sort of divine guidance.

    It simply would simply be flawed beyond belief.

    While that is not enough evidence to conclude that God is real it certainly is enough to give reasonable people the option to consider God as a possibility.
     
  5. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or it could be a collection of stories edited to support some minor cult.
     
  6. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you want to think that those who assembled the canon actually edited the works before putting it together then that would be really your only defense against the accuracy of the writing of the bible. Not the content, just the writing of it.

    Heck, you could tell 40 people a long story like the Bible, assign them each a part of it to write, then give them a month to do it with no further contact amongst them. The inconsistencies and mistakes would be through the roof.

    Now imagine them writing this over 15 centuries, without hearing the majority of stories that preceded theirs, and getting it correct.

    Do you see the impossibility of that?
     
  7. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Most of the OT stories are much older and came from the mythos and poetry of Babylon, Egypt and Ugarit... and most were not written down until after the Babylonian exile. In many ways they are flawed ... for instance at the time of the Exodus Sinai was Egyptian and there were Canaanite cities that paid tribute to Pharaoh.. so he had Egyptian garrisons posted there. The Code of Hammurabi dates to 1754 BC and the Egyptian Book of the Dead dates to 1550 BC.
     
  8. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Impossibility of folks editing mythological texts in order to further the myth? Seems likely to me.

    That being said myths about pregnant virgins and watchful gods were everywhere at the time.
     
  9. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, in fact almost every major religion contains common elements to others. But you cannot equate the consistency of the bible against other religions, we are only talking about the bible. There is no other compilation of texts that maintains the exact story as the bible does so therefore cannot be used as any type of evidence. Sure there are similarities but there are also similarities between zoastrianism and Aboriginal spiritualism. That does not mean they copied each other.
     
  10. Bill Fishlore

    Bill Fishlore New Member

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    What you say is true of the New Testament (the four Gospels, Acts and Epistles). Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament) is centuries older. The rest of the OT is of varying degrees of antiquity and authenticity. The non-Hebrew versions, Septuagint, Vulgate etc. are not the books of the Jewish people.

    The Bible appears to present itself as history, although history as we use the term did not exist in the centuries before the Christian era. The Father of History (so-called) Herodotus, wrote almost a century later than the Deuteronimic revision which produced the modern Torah, and his history includes fantastical legends fully as unscientific as the miracles in Genesis and Exodus.

    Ancient chroniclers did not see accurate and detailed descriptions of observed events as the basis history. To them, what happened was much less important than what events which happened meant and the invisible forces behind events. For them, things that we consider myth and mere fantasy, happened because they were true and they were true because they were the meaning behind what happened.

    "Realistic" is a word tossed about these days without too much reflection. Most people would say that a picture of your face is more realistic than a CAT scan of your head. It certainly is much more difficult to identify you from such a CAT scan than from a selfie, but which one has the most and the most important information about who you really are?
     
  11. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    That's so weird! I mean, it was only 4,000 years ago and they were nomads lived in tents. 4,000 years from now what archaeological evidence will there be that the Cherokee ever lived in Kentucky?
     
  12. CJtheModerate

    CJtheModerate New Member

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    I debunked that in another thread. The Bible is not consistent.
     
  13. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Sinai today only supports 800,000 people.. No way 2 million people and their herds of livestock lived there without water and pasture for 40 years.
     
  14. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no so called inconsistency in the bible that cannot be debunked in one way or another.

    But if you would like to play that game than bring one up and I will debunk it for you.

    I have never lost this game mind you though.

    Balls in your court.
     
  15. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The Sinai Peninsula has remained a part of Egypt from the First Dynasty of ancient Egypt ( c. 3100 BC) until the 21st century............
     
  16. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And what would that tell you then?

    Perhaps the Sinai in the Bible is not the one today?

    That would be one possible explanation amongst many.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks for the history!
     
  17. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Not without Manna and the ability to hit rocks with the staff of Moses and have water gush out.
     
  18. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There could be 1000 possibilities of how this was possible. No proof whatsoever of an inconsistency.
     
  19. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Where do you think Sinai is ?

    [​IMG]

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    Why eat manna when they had millions of head of livestock and plenty of dried dung for fuel?
     
  20. AlpinLuke

    AlpinLuke Well-Known Member

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    The earliest evidence that a "King of Israel" and a "House of David" [but the second one is disputed] existed comes from 9th century BCE ... the tablet found at Tel Dan [it's a Stele, if we want to be accurate] ... take a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_Stele#Content

    Then we've got the well known Mesha Stele, which recalls 2 Kings 3, again from 9th century [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesha_Stele].

    Just to mention a couple of artifacts [still debated, but quite interesting].
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    That is one of the great mysteries of scripture.
     
  22. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just walking you through the process until you see. I already have the answer for you but you need to understand the process we use to debunk inconsistencies in the Bible.
     
  23. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    LOLOLOL....
     
  24. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So are you contending that you have found absolute proof of a inconsistency in the Bible?
     
  25. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Well, the Genesis story was cobbled together on orders from King Omri to combine the different creation stories of Judah and Israel...
     

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